Nine Assumptions of Schooling and Twenty-one Facts the Institution Would Rather Not Discuss

Spinning Globe ^ | John Taylor Gatto

[mountn man]

...if they keep out of trouble and off the dole, it's good enough. I am much more concerned about the gifted children, for these are the seed corn of the civilization.

My, you sound like a pompous ass. Are you Al Gore? Maybe John Kerry?

You know, Ronald Reagan was thought a dullard by a lot of people. He turned out to be one of our greatest presidents. He inspired thousands upon thousands of people. Influencing others to greatness, is far greater than personal accomplishments.
Early in life Einstein was considered to be average, if maybe a little slow.
What about Lincoln?
Howard Hughes never earned a diploma, and was a self taught aircraft engineer.
Thomas Edison had a 4 year formal education.
Dave Thomas founder of Wendy's was a high school drop out.
Erik Demaine was homeschooled. He's the youngest person to ever be made a professor at MIT.

There are many people who have been great successes either being homeschooled, or had very little formal education, or were thought ordinary.

Though I think education is important, to a certain extent. Its not the beginning and end all of a persons worth or acclomplishment. There are more "gifted" people who never accomplish anything or live up to potential. Versus ordinary people who excel and impact others.

[GSlob]

Far from every gifted child would grow into something extraordinary, but those growing into something extraordinary disproportionally come from the "gifted" group. Thus it is good to look at it as an enrichment process in, say, precious metal mining.
The "gifted" group is an ore concentrate, not pure platinum. And yes, some metal is left in tailings. But mining platinum necessarily involves concentrating the ore and then processing the concentrate. Same here.
Murray and Herrnstein in their "Bell Curve" documented some of it: it is this group [not exclusively - there will be exceptions, but predominantly]- rises up no matter what, and it is in our shared interest that they get the best possible education, among other things.

[wintertime]

Honestly, you don't think homeschooled children miss out on the socialization with other kids? Athletics and friendships are important, I'm not sure how this can be compensated for when homeschooling young children.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Many homeschoolers are now forming their own sporting and cheerleading teams. My children participated in soccer, children's theater, musical recitals, and dance. Many homeschoolers are very active in the YMCA basketball and swimming teams. They played with the neighborhood children when these children returned from school. They also had friends of a wide range of ages in the neighborhood.

Thankfully, homeschoolers miss out on the worst of the government school "socialization". That most government schooled children overcome the brutal experience is a testament to the adaptability and resilience of the human spirit. Why are children expected to put up with behavior that would win an adult millions in court? The following are some examples of this "socialization":

Bullying, sexual harassment, alpha-girl emotional poison, physical and sexual abuse, homosexual indoctrination, the sorting and grading, the caste system, cliques, the fashions, piercings, and tattoos, the age segregation, the herding about to the sounds of bells, the lack of physical exercise, the foul language, and immodest dress.....

[wintertime]

Have you heard of the phrase, "Rome wasn't built in a day"?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Actually, I believe that people are smart. If they see a good idea they will accept it. And,,,homeschooling is a good idea.

Please note my tag line. I expect resourceful and determined parents to abandon government schools in droves.

[metmom]

How depressing inspiring! I'm afraid my 15 and 12-year-old are just children. Pleasant, interesting, and informed children (my oldest is an Ann Coulter wannabe), but way behind your examples!

But no one knows what's in store in the future. Albert Einstein was bad at math and Thomas Edison was considered addle-brained by his teacher and his mother homeschooled him.

http://www.humboldt1.com/%7Egralsto/einstein/early.html

http://www.thomasedison.com/biog.htm

[metmom]

But there are also teachers who don't belong teaching either.

In Buffalo every few years, the teachers are required to take proficiency tests that the high school students are required to pass to graduate from high school and the teachers fail them at an alarming rate. Of course, there is a hue and cry from the teachers unions but it is embarrassing nevertheless.

[mountn man]

Just marking my spot here as I am interested in this subject.

Honestly, you don't think homeschooled children miss out on the socialization with other kids? Athletics and friendships are important, I'm not sure how this can be compensated for when homeschooling young children.

I used to be a leader in the Jr. Hi ministry at my old church. I had many students through my group that were homeschooled. I found some interesting things that were pretty consistent throughout. My guys were generally more confident or more self sure. I'm not talking cocky. I mean they were confident in who they were. They knew they were loved. They didn't feel the need to attack others, or compete negatively. There input was primarily positive, so they had little negative output.

Because of there self confidence, they seemed to have stronger leadership qualities. But because of the lack of negative input, their leadership qualities weren't as self absorbed as others.

Parents of homeschoolers have a tendency to be extremely aware of their childrens needs. Which means they also make sure they are socially interacted with others. Between church groups, sports leagues, music classes, homeschooling groups, and other activities. The one social area homeschoolers seems to be deficint in is delinquency. By this I mean their not involved with wearing all the right things to school. They don't get involved with bullying on the school bus. They act up less or are less disruptive.

Since most homeschooling parents homeschool for reasons other than strictly education, by principles and/or religious, homeschool kids have a tendency to be more courteous and better behaved. Again, if you limit the negative input of society, you have a better chance of positive output.

As far as friends go, unless a child is homeschooled out in the country, he/she will have other kids in the neighborhood to develope friendships with. But once again, because of the values that homeschool parents are generally trying to instill in their kids, and because of the association with primarily church kids or other homeschooled kids, chances are, they will develope their relationships with other like minded people.

Do I think ALL homeschool kids or parents are perfect? Not a chance. But I see homeschool parents desiring a higher standard for their kids. If you set your standards high you might not reach them, but you'll reach higher than you would if you didn't aim high.

Imagine a high jumper who continually tried to reach the 7' height, but only accomplished 6'. Compare that to a high jumper who only jumped 3' because they knew they could do that.

Keep up your interest in the subject. Research the subject like crazy. But make sure you listen to facts not opinions. Or at least not opinions based in ignorance, but opinions based on experience. I have presented you with my "opinions". My opinions are just my opinions, but I base them on 18 years of youth group experience, and dozens of kids who I had who were homeschooled, or kids in our group who were homeschooled. I also have a few friends who homeschool. Between them they have 16 kids who are homeschooled or recently (last 3 yrs) homeschooled.

[Clintonfatigued]

"Honestly, you don't think homeschooled children miss out on the socialization with other kids? Athletics and friendships are important, I'm not sure how this can be compensated for when homeschooling young children."

Your concern is legitimate, but it's based on outdated information. Homeschooling no longer means a parent confining the child to the home teaching out of textbooks. There are now homeschooling associations and cooperatives which sponsor athletic events and field trips for its members. And new technology (the internet & educational software, for example) are far more stimulating intellectually than the dull school textbooks. And homeschooled children do miss out on bullying, bad teachers, bleak classrooms, and homework.

Today's homeschooling isn't your grandparents' homeschooling. It's good that you've taken an interest in the topic, as you get to see the advances made in homeschooling.

[after dark]

Because you are not limiting the choices of the "dullards", the "retards" and the just plain normal, I am not offended by your position ,however the examples listed by another poster disprove the assumption that genius is as simple as a Mensa membership card.

[RobbyS]

What must be kept in mind is that a school is a government agency.

[mountn man]

I had a teacher in Jr.High who almost everybody disliked. Her nickname was Bigbird. About 15 years later, a friend of mine had her first teaching job at the same Jr. Hi. She told me of a teacher who talked negatively about students all the time during breaks in the teachers lounge. She didn't think that any students liked this teacher. And she thought that this teacher should just retire. Yes, it was Bigbird.

Bigbird might have had the knowledge to teach. She might have known the mechanics to teach. But she lacked the passion or desire to teach. How can someone teach another, if they don't respect or love the other?

[RobbyS]

The teachers that students have DO teach them a few things. One problem is that the school system is more interested in the process of schooling than in the content of the courses. Let me rephrase that. It is more concerned about indoctrination in attitudes than in the inculcation of academic knowledge or the empowerment of individuals in society. I might say that their concerns are more ideological than educational. Boardly speaking that ideology is liberal and secular.

[luckystarmom]

The problem with this is that it is hard to tell what is going on with a kid.

I have a daughter who is brain damaged. Where would she fit in?

One size definitely does not fit each kid, but I don't trust the schools to figure it out.

We are pulling my daughters from public school because they refuse to give my daughter extra help in reading that we (parents,a learning specialist, a neuropsychologist, and a speech therapist) think she needs.

We are going with private school. She'll be mainstreamed most of the day, and then pulled out for a multi-sensory reading program. I hope it helps her. I'll have to wait a while to see if she makes progress.

[GSlob]

Re-read the "Bell Curve". If anyone were to give Einstein a contemporary IQ test around 1890, there are good chances he would come as significantly above average. There was no testing then, and the society became much better at identifying high IQ pupils now. I simply consider the gifted group too important to give them anything but the best. If you read my other comments on this thread, you might have noticed that I kept referring to one particular [foreign] example of "the best". The interesting part of that particular school's history was that it started as a "cooperative homeschooling" project by a group of university professors. Because of other [social] conditions they had to open it to the outsiders - and did so, by selectively admitting schoolchildren on the basis of IQ riddles tests. The results were startling. I have not yet come across a better program for the gifted, even by hearsay. If there is a better one - by all means, let's implement that.

[luckystarmom]

It is hard to get special ed designation, and the districts do not get enough money for special ed services, so they like to refuse them to qualified kids like my daughter (with brain damage).

In California, the amount of money the school gets is based on attendance. One school in San Jose, the principal asked parents to take their sick kids to school so they could be counted as being at school, and then pull the kids out sick.

[luckystarmom]

Thomas Edison's mom didn't like his school, and homeschooled him.

[after dark]

There is some evidence that Einstein was autistic. He was a late walker and he did not start talking until four.Speech and motor delays are the hallmarks of Autism.One thing is certain his teachers did not like him.Eventually Einstein did become a genius. The I.Q. tests (maybe you know of better intelligence tests)weed out people who hate tests and do not concentrate.Had he been such an IQ genius as a child , why did he not do better on his school tests. The maturation rate of an autistic brain may be somewhat different from other brains. I know of one autistic who tested beneath average as a teenager and in her forties tested in at 145.Genius is worth studying. Why are all savants are autistic?

[Oberon]

Ping for later reading.

[stevestras]

Thanks for your thoughts.

I think I understand the benefits, just have a feeling that certain kinds of kids can be held back by homeschooling. Primarily naturally talented athletes. It would seem you might have to place them in a more traditional school by ninth grade, or risk limiting their potential.

[Tired of Taxes]

I'm a homeschool parent of three, and I've come to see that a child puts out exactly what is put in. The key isn't to separate kids according to ability, but to begin with all kids at a very young age. Not at government-type schools, or schools where kids are stuck together in one classroom. Parents can start their children early at home simply by teaching them the alphabet, phonics, and simple math as young as age one. And, most importantly, make sure that everything to which they have access has educational merit.

I have one child who probably would be considered "gifted", but I reject that term because it suggests that some people are born naturally more intelligent than others. And that's not really true. While a small percentage of people may have a mental handicap that cripples their ability, the vast majority would advance more rapidly if they were given enough attention and restricted access to only things with educational merit. And, even if those things aren't provided at an early age, people still have a chance to advance later.

There are some issues when, for example, your young child is reading at an advanced level. I always worried about what books he might get his hands on... Just because a young child can read and understand older topics, doesn't mean that he should...

Not sure what you meant in your first post about the "Brown decision," btw.