[wagglebee]

In our own time, the judiciary has embraced this figurative phrase as a virtual rule of constitutional law and as the organizing theme of church–state jurisprudence, even though the metaphor is nowhere to be found in the U.S. Constitution.

And the left knows that if people remain ignorant about what is in the Constitution, they will get away with it.

[wagglebee]

MORAL ABSOLUTES PING

DISCUSSION ABOUT:

The Mythical "Wall of Separation": How a Misused Metaphor Changed Church–State Law

Our Founding Fathers gave us freedom OF religion, not FROM it.

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To be included in or removed from the MORAL ABSOLUTES PINGLIST, please FReepMail wagglebee.

[outofsalt]

Bump for later. Thanks for a good post!

[jla]

Along with the fact that Mr. J was not present at the constitutional convention.

[KEmom]

I think that is probably why they do not have the kids in school read the Constitution and study it. I get so sick of hearing "separation of church and state".

Thanks for posting this.

[Jim Noble]

Until Everson is overruled, church-state jurisprudence will become increasingly incoherent.

Supreme Court justices, and the class they came from, probably thought religion in public life would disappear in 30-40 years, and that they were just laying the groundwork for the inevitable.

But they were wrong, and their "erection of a wall of separation" is going to have to go.

[PhillyRepublican]

Great post. Printing this one out for my liberal friends to choke on.

[narses]

+

[BikerGold]

"And the left knows that if people remain ignorant about what is in the Constitution, they will get away with it."

And with the Bible not being used as the main textbook.

[sageb1]

" In matters of religion, I have considered that its free exercise is placed by the constitution independent of the powers of the general [i.e., federal] government. I have therefore undertaken, on no occasion, to prescribe the religious exercises suited to it; but have left them, as the constitution found them, under the direction and discipline of State or Church authorities acknowledged by the several religious societies."

The "wall": Non-interference by the federal government in religious affairs.

"The free press guarantee, for example, was not written to protect the civil state from the press; rather, it was designed to protect a free and independent press from control by the federal government."

Good analogy.

[groanup]

I have often wondered why these metaphorical decisions have been accepted for the first amendment and not the second.

Jefferson also wrote a letter to a relative admonishing him to always bring his gun on his walks.

How about a new metaphor: "your gun should always walk with you"?

[Lord Basil]

Wasn't Black a segregationist? That would make him an expert on separating things.

[khnyny]

Great post, you beat me to it, lol. Everyone should read this Heritage article.

[NonValueAdded]

reference bump

[balrog666]

If the Supreme Court has accepted it, it won't be disappearing anytime soon. Nor should it.

[TASMANIANRED]

Jefferson wasn't an author of the Constitution.

I believe he was out of the country in France at the time.

[AZRepublican]

A real good analyis on why the 14th amendment does not incorporate the establishment clause against the states see:

http://federalistblog.us/mt/articles/14th_dummy_guide.htm#e

[mrsmith]

"William Rehnquist totally destroys "Separation of Church and State" myth"
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/971381/posts

Justice Rehnquist's Dissent in WALLACE V. JAFFREE (1985)

[roofgoat]

Thanks for the Post - will have to spend some quiet time with this one.

[Lancey Howard]

GREAT post!

Bookmarked.

[LowOiL]

Jefferson’s wall separated church and the federal government only. By incorporating the First Amendment non-establishment provision into the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, Black’s wall separates religion and civil government at all levels—federal, state, and local. By extending its prohibitions to state and local jurisdictions, Black turned the First Amendment, as ratified in 1791, on its head. A barrier originally designed, as a matter of federalism, to separate the national and state governments, and thereby to preserve state jurisdiction in matters pertaining to religion, was transformed into an instrument of the federal judiciary to invalidate policies and programs of state and local authorities. As the normative constitutional rule applicable to all relationships between religion and the civil state, the wall that Black built has become the defining structure of a putatively secular polity.

Exactly... we have a FReeper who has a great (free) insight on this subject... I like it so well, I bought his book.

http://www.logical.arts.new.net/

The Conservative Debate Handbook is a great read and FR is greatly blessed to have Ohioan as a member.