Posted on 06/22/2006 8:49:57 AM PDT by Jeff Head
In using Google Earth to look at the Dalien Shipyards and other places in Red China, I was able to find these pictures. Given time, one could find a lot more regarding PLAN bases and PLAAF bases, or any other fixed locations.
Dalien Naval Shipyard Pictures (Varyag Aircraft Carrier, Typre 51C DDG, and others):
PLAN Submarine Base Pictures (SSBN, several SSN and SS...and an entrance to an underground facility):
Thanks for the ping.
Ah yes, the 'we're at war' mantra. And a comparison to WWII even. Let's consider a few facts (I realize they don't matter in tin foil land but let's have a go, eh?)
1) Exactly who are we 'at war' with? Contrary to Republican talking points (the few sensible ones they do have), 'conservatives' would turn this into a re-creation of the Crusades. If that's the case we'll be 'at war' for literally decades. What else would you have government agencies 'protect'? What do you expect the DOD to do? If the enemy (who isn't defined in this case or at least open to change) can get the information from anywhere, what's it going to do to stop Google (or NASA) from publishing these photos to the general public? Perhaps we should make all of space a part of national security?
2) The comparison to WWII is ridiculous. At that point the United States was at war with a defined military power. What does Iran have? Four planes and a slew of religious nuts? Face it, no one we are currently 'at war' with compares to the military might the US faced during WWII.
Any information the terrorists can get, contrary to 'conservative' belief, is not from Google, NASA (a government agency that releases much of the same information), or any other public forum.
Contact is on HBO right now and I'm watching for the 10th time
Thanks for the ping!
Don't understand it, do you. Or still can't pick a side, as you seem outright concerned for "the freedom" of America's enemies, who in reality deserve not a glimpse of our military facilities.
Who are we at war with?
Organized groups of people and countries who are both actively trying to kill us., or getting themselves into position to. People who despise our way of life and very freedom, for whatever reason, and have proven themselves wholly dedicated to fighting us.
They are not just the Islamic extremists, but those are the ones at the forefront now. The geo-political landscape is defining itself and sides are being drawn up.
If you can't see these things, or don't believe them, fine...you have every right as I have already said to your opinion and view. Speak to a few of our people who have been over in Iraq and Afghanistan facing these enemies up close and personal. Talk to the many who are re-upping to keep in that fight...speak to the Iraqi people themselves who are signing up by the hundreds of thiosuands and dieing in the same fight.
Your attempts to somehow trivialize these things reflects, at least IMHO, on an intrinsic weakness in your own arguements.
So, say what you will...we are at war. We are fighting dedicated enemies currently, and we have other ideological rivals who are building up and joining together to oppose us. Many of them are traditional state powers (Afghanistan was one, Iraq was one, Iran is one, N. Korea is one, I believe China is one and so is Venezuela). They are forging alliances, understandings, pacts, etc.
Iran and N. Korea either have or soon will have nuclear capabilty...that alone puts them beyond the class of enemies we fought in World War II in terms of their potential for harm. Sorry, but your arguements as regards these belligerents just do not hold up from my perspective.
Anyhow, you have certainly expressed ourself regarding the issues, and done so in what I consider to be a fairly arrogant and patronizing manor. As I said, though you have every right to your own opinions (as do I), from my perspective it lessens your position. Nonetheless, I am content to let other readers make up their own minds regarding the issues we have discussed.
You are weclome AG. Amazing what lies at our fingertips these days.
So very true, Jeff!
Thank you so much for thinking of me with a ping!
I believe they have blurred our Navy base in Norfolk Va. it is blurred now but it was clear just a few months ago.
Well I imagine when you don't have a leg to stand on, it does get a bit tiring dealing with fact.
Who are we at war with? Organized groups of people and countries who are both actively trying to kill us., or getting themselves into position to. People who despise our way of life and very freedom, for whatever reason, and have proven themselves wholly dedicated to fighting us.
Wait, they hate us for our ATMs? Now who are these 'countries' you speak of? The rambling WOS(ome)T is focused on Al Qaeda. If there is a definitive nation state we are 'at war' with there shouldn't be a problem with Congress whipping out a declaration of war instead of continuing their 50 year version of passing the buck.
They are not just the Islamic extremists, but those are the ones at the forefront now. The geo-political landscape is defining itself and sides are being drawn up.
Oh good, it is the Crusades..part deux. Yeah, that'll come out just fine....
Speak to a few of our people who have been over in Iraq and Afghanistan facing these enemies up close and personal. Talk to the many who are re-upping to keep in that fight...speak to the Iraqi people themselves who are signing up by the hundreds of thiosuands and dieing in the same fight.
Why? Will they know more about satellite technology than you? I sure hope so. Maybe they'll know if your quest to 'protect' us from pictures does succeed, that it would be fruitless as there are probably dozens of satellites that do the same thing Google does. And the majority are in positions that coercion by the US government won't matter to them
For any further dialog with me on this issue, refer back to my post 106, that's what I have to say on the matter.
Otherwise, thanks for the BUMP of the thread...please keep doing so.
You are welcome my friend. Best fregards.
The base at Norfolk is open and in the clear:
COSCO is an extenion of the PRC military. I do not agree with their having that level of operation in any of our ports...just like I disagree heartily with their level of involvement and control ove the Panama Canal. Same in the SPrately Islands. They are busily, and committedly, establish themselves on many of the vital choke points around the world.
Yes.
:-(
Bill clinton is a pig and a bastard.
Wow, big ships, and did you notice that sea shelf! And were those submarines?
Ah Google, making the world a more difficult place to live. Surprised they haven't rolled over and "protected" these images for their communist masters. Perhaps they'll tirun us in for "googling" them!
Did you know that our government was stupid enough to invite Chinese military personnel onboard our ships during our recent Pacific naval exercises?
That state of affairs is made doubly dangerous by the eagerness of certain media outlets to publish information that is not readily available to other than ‘inside sources’ – a la the New York Times’ recent publication of information regarding methods being employed by the Treasury Department and the CIA to track terrorist-related financial transactions, despite pleas from the White House and high-ranking members of congress that they not do so.
So our technological glass-house dilemma is made doubly dangerous by the fact that the mainstream media often display more of an interest in publishing an exclusive story than in protecting national security or seeing to it that the effectiveness of anti-terror strategies remains uncompromised. The freedoms ensured by the First Amendment are extremely dangerous when exercised without conscience or responsibility.
Because of the countless ways in which our security can now be compromised, I think we have to be very discerning when deciding which hills need defending. Jeff seems to believe that indiscriminately publishing space-based photos of our military installations is unwise. Although I might choose to expend my energy to defend other hills, I respect his decision to focus on this one. And the reason I respect that decision is that I know few, if any, modern Americans whose interest in preserving the security and sovereignty of this country is greater or more sincere, or whose knowledge of past, present and future military history/preparedness is more broad and fact/study-based.
Personally, my view of the future of our republic has become so jaundiced that am in awe of those, like Jeff, who still seek to ‘make a difference’. I believe that the time for the average citizen to exert any significant effect on the pathway down which we are traveling as a civilization is now virtually non-existent.
Our citizenry has become distracted and ignorant by choice – ignorant of its proud roots, and ignorant of the genuine threats to our lives, liberties and sovereignty that are rampant, and gaining power, both within and outside of our borders.
Our government is corrupt – devoted more to the amassing of power, and the realization of political agendas, than it is to preserving the sanctity of the Constitution and the sovereignty of the republic.
Our laws no longer serve justice, but, instead, serve to increase the power of the elite, and create and maintain a citizenry that is ever more dependent on government edict and largesse.
Our best days are behind us. And I am finished agonizing over the domestic and international abominations that result from impotence and/or corruption at the highest levels of our government. I am speaking and writing at the local level, whenever provided the chance, so as to attempt to educate others about where the dark road ahead leads. But, beyond that, I believe individual effort is futile.
Jeff, you are a patriot who believes our republic can survive both the threat of terrorism, and national leadership that has betrayed the trust of the people and is every bit as much of a threat to the actual foundations of our republic as any threat from outside of our borders ... and you are tireless in your efforts to reclaim our republic from the scoundrels. Your reality includes significantly more optimism than mine. For that, I do not take issue with you … I salute you.
~ joanie
Allegiance and Duty Betrayed
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