This is the liberal response to the WMD find: "Santorum recycles bogus Iraq WMD claims"

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[ChrisFelice1]

Pennsylvania Senator Rick Santorum has been making the rounds claiming that the US has in fact discovered banned weapons in Iraq. The claims are based on the continuing sporadic appearance of pre-Gulf War I munitions containing variously disintegrated chemical weapons, and the Pentagon has said that the claims are crap: the munitions in question, mostly artillery rounds, are unusable and have been for years...

[bcsco]

"lady??

In a manner, of speaking perhaps :)

[Nightrider]

ah, yes......in manner of...

[Zavien Doombringer]

Ok, so let's all jump onto this hype... I now see what others have been seeing. There is only a onesided thought process here. I didn't think I had to actually go through and itemize my opinions to you or others here.

I have never said there weren't any WMD, nor have I said that there isn't or was a threat. I did say and quoted the sources that the canisters in question were not the reason we went to war as Santorum is ranting about. WE/I know that there are WMDs out there and have yet to find the rest.

Rational thought must prevail... do these canister pose a threat to tens of thousands, or a few hundred. Granted, any loss of life is a terrible thing and to be succombed to chemical warfare (I am trained in chemical warfare - prior enlisted - 8yrs) is a horrible way to suffer and die.

BTW; M9 Tape:

U.S. MILITARY M-9 CHEMICAL AGENT DETECTOR TAPE -- This is the Real Thing! -- M-9 Tape for Chemical Warfare Agent Detection. The M9 detector tape detects the presence of liquid chemical agent, but does not identify either the specific agent or the type of agent encountered. Each soldier is typically issued one 30-foot long and 2-inch wide roll of M-9 paper, or tape. An adhesive backing is incorporated into the tape in order to facilitate wrapping the paper, or tape, around a sleeve or trouser leg. Because the indicator dye in the paper is a potential carcinogen, gloves should be worn during application, and the paper should not contact the skin. The M9 tape is a dull, off-white or cream color in the absence of liquid agent, but contains an indicator chemical that, when dissolved in liquid agent, turns a reddish color. When the soldier sees the color change, the gas mask is immediately put on. The M9 paper will detect nerve agent or blister agent droplets as small as 100 microns in diameter. False positives may be seen if the paper is exposed to antifreeze, liquid insecticide, or petroleum products. M9 tape, which is similar to masking tape, is used by attaching strips to the individual outer garments and to equipment, such as vehicle controls. The strips are then visually inspected routinely for color change. The tape should not be attached to hot surfaces. SOLD BY THE ROLL.

[Zavien Doombringer]

So, when did the Kurds get dusted? Pre 1991?

[Wombat101]

"First... I am not stupid..."

To be fair, perhaps gullible and unconscious might be more specific words.

"Safety is always first..."

If it was then you wouldn't automatically discount the fact that these weapons are still dangerous, even in a 'degraded' state.

"A cup of sarin isn't a weapon until it is used as such... as is Water Hemlock, Lantana, Rhubarb leaves. Not much of a danger until you eat them..."

Perhpas not, but accidents do happen, you know. And I wouldn't count upon the good intent of an Islamic terrorist. So long as they exist the TEMPTATION to use them will similarly exist. Your argument is bass-ackwards; you seem to believe that the things were created without the intention of using them, or at least keeping the possibility of using them open, at some point. That kind of thinking is the same as some guy who wants to buy himself a flamethrower, not to use it, but just so he can say he has one.

You've just applied the "guns don't kill people, people kill people" argument to a WMD. You must think yourself very clever. If you believe ther eis no difference between a handgun and a chemical weapon, and they can be treated in the same way, you have serious issues.

"The canisters were not attached to warheads. and NO, I would be as so stupid as to have one on a mantle."

You don't know this for a fact, and neither do I. It doesn't even address the possibility that some may still be laying around, unfound, and they ARE attached to warheads. In fact, the cannister itself (if it's a binary weapon) IS the warhead, all that needs to be 'attached' is the propellent, or other contrivance for delivering it.

I'm happy you wouldn't want one in your house, inert or not.

"But, the pentagon has released a report that the canisters could not be used for thier intended purpose, meaning as a weapon of mass destruction"

The Pentagon also routinely pays $400 for toilet seats asnd socket wrenches; so what? The Pentagon can't be wrong, even with the best experts money can buy? Show me where it says in that "Pentagon report" that they investigated and discounted the possibility that while the weapons might be useless, their component parts aren't? You know, the point of this is NOT that a 'degraded cannister' might be used for it's original opurpose (wiping out thousands in a small are), but that smaller amounts might be used to kill hundreds in an enclosed area (like on a subway train or an auditorium).

'Degraded' sarin is still sarin, just not as potent. Buit I can see that you make no distinction; a WMD MUST kill thousands, if not millions, to be considered so. A few hundred (even a few score) deaths or injuries apparently don't constitute a WMD-level threat to you. Please seek help.

[Chances Are]

The use of the word "stockpiles" by the pedophile Scott Ritter was most unfortunate.

The emphasis was obviously upon mobility and efficiency in Saddam's weapons program. That is how he managed to so successfully play cat and mouse with the UN inspectors for so long.

If there were "stockpiles" (an important element in the Left's orgasm in perpetuating this argument), even Blix would have found them eventually, as "stockpiles" implies immobility.

As has been pointed out previously, this stuff is lethal, and it doesn't take much to do the job. "Stockpiles", such as they are, are not really necessary for the purposes that Saddam would have chosen to us them for.

The simple fact of the matter is, if the WMD allegation, upon close inspection, proves true, then a major, major point of the Left's campaign against the war, and hence President Bush, totally collapses into desert dust.

Not that that would deter these unrepentant apologists for the bad guys.

CA....

[Zavien Doombringer]

Very nice of you to try to give me psycho eval on the internet;

'Degraded' sarin is still sarin, just not as potent. Buit I can see that you make no distinction; a WMD MUST kill thousands, if not millions, to be considered so. A few hundred (even a few score) deaths or injuries apparently don't constitute a WMD-level threat to you. Please seek help.

Again, WMD Weapons of MASS destruction

Not Weapons of Destruction. For crying out loud, what on earth is a weapon for anyway... planting?

Guilable.. not hardly as you seem to think that this is a horrendous find...

I guess you think all weapons are WMDs...

[roaddog727]

"....appearance of pre-Gulf War I munitions containing variously disintegrated chemical weapons..."

An IED made from one of these "disintegrated weapons" i.e. Sarin, would certainly wreck your day.

[mike70]

Are you willing to open one up and take a deep breath?

[sam_paine]

This is why Bush has not bothered to open this can of worms and just move forward.

[Chances Are]

Actually, only nuclear devices can be correctly labeled "weapons of mass destruction". The other stuff being discussed and bandied about are really "weapons of area denial".

If you happen to be the one who catches the effects of one or the other, I don't suppose it makes much difference, does it? A distinction without a difference, as it were.

CA....

[Loyal Buckeye]

Santorum said many more WMD sites had been found, but were still 'classified'. The problem seems to be that the admin. thinks they've moved on,...

I suggest this is a classic GWB move. Since the issue had been "settled" by the Dems and MSM, he is just having Santorum throw some bait out and wait until the Dems bite. If history tells us anything, the Dems will not disappoint.

[Wombat101]

"I guess you think all weapons are WMDs..."

No, I base my opinion first hand knowledge; I spent 12 years in the United States Navy as an aviation ordnanceman (that is someone who handles, maintains, and loads weapons, explosives and associated equipment on naval aircraft).

You get hung up on the term MASS. Mass means, simply, more than 1. Two is more than one. One hundred is more than one. Two hundred is more than one. You seem to not want to apply this term to anything that will kill more than a few people at a time. I'm telling you that even when these things are "inert", as you keep insisting, they are not harmless. Two completely different concepts at work here.

I can only imagine that you have a vested interest (probably psychological) for insisting otherwise. Is it too scary a thought for you that such things exist? Are you a democrat in sheep's clothing (oh wait, I forgot: democrats and sheep are the same thing!)? Explain just how it is you came to the conclusion that these 500 weapons are HARMLESS?

Please don't repeat the mantra "The Pentagon said so", because that means nothing; the Pentagon once told me I would be deployed for only 60 days which wound up being 281 (amongst other things), and they once told my father's generation we were winning the Vietnam War while he under fire at Khe Sanh, so I have very little faith in what a REMF-paper-pusher has to say on anything. Where did you get the questionable idea that any weapon is harmless?

And you're welcome for the psych evaluation. Unfortunately, it appears you won't takemy advice though, and seek professional treatment for this delusionary state.

[Zavien Doombringer]

No, I base my opinion first hand knowledge; I spent 12 years in the United States Navy as an aviation ordnanceman (that is someone who handles, maintains, and loads weapons, explosives and associated equipment on naval aircraft).

And that means you are an expert on "wet eye", MC-1 and spray tanks

[Zavien Doombringer]

I can only imagine that you have a vested interest (probably psychological) for insisting otherwise. Is it too scary a thought for you that such things exist?

I have loaded such things including mock nukes in South Korea - I have seen the destruction most cause through the fire-power demos...Scary thought, no.. a scary reality.

Are you a democrat in sheep's clothing (oh wait, I forgot: democrats and sheep are the same thing!)?

No, I am not...

Explain just how it is you came to the conclusion that these 500 weapons are HARMLESS?

Must not be harmless - it's killing you to argue this...

[Zavien Doombringer]

Oh, just incase you didn't know, I did my time on the Flight Line... just cause you got 4 yrs more doesn't mean squat... those last four of yours means you were pushing a desk...

[Wombat101]

Guess again; I did three-quarters of MY time aboard carriers (Eisenhower, Midway and Enterprise). Your "flight line" means shyte compared to my flight line. My "last four years" were spent as an instructor, not a desk jockey.

And you;re still wrong.

[Zavien Doombringer]

My "last four years" were spent as an instructor, not a desk jockey.

I rest my case

[Zavien Doombringer]

You still didn't mention if you knew "wet eye", MC-1 or Sprays...

[Wombat101]

Wet Eye is a chemical weapon )usually something along the lines of an Osmium Tetroxide-type compound) that is a dessicant; it will literrally, suck the moisture from your eyes (among other places), eating them out of your sockets.

The MC-1 was a chemical bomb, about a 200-lb volume, if I remember correctly. Probably closer to 250, though.

And spray "this"...