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Brown in favour of updating British Trident
Daily Telegraph ^ | 22/06/2006 | By George Jones, Political Editor

Posted on 06/21/2006 8:02:27 PM PDT by sukhoi-30mki

Brown in favour of updating Trident

By George Jones, Political Editor

(Filed: 22/06/2006)

Gordon Brown promised last night to approve the updating of Britain's Trident nuclear deterrent in an attempt to show that a Labour government led by him would not swing back to the Left or be "soft" on defence.

In a move that will anger Left-wing MPs, the Chancellor told business leaders and financiers that as Prime Minister he would be "strong" in fighting terrorism, supporting the Armed Forces and "retaining our independent nuclear deterrent".

Treasury sources said Mr Brown, who in the past has been criticised for squeezing the defence budget, would assure military chiefs that as Chancellor or Prime Minister he would find the necessary resources to ensure the long term future of Britain's nuclear deterrent.

The cost of replacing the Trident fleet of nuclearpowered submarines together with a new missile system is put at between £10 billion and £25 billion, though the cost could be lower if the missiles alone were updated.

Mr Brown used his annual Mansion House speech to the City of London to signal publicly for the first time that he supported updating the nuclear deterrent. It was a clear message to Left-wing MPs, who have been calling for a "radical renewal" - political code for the abandonment of Tony Blair's reform programme - that he would not be a "soft touch" on issues such as defence.

It was also aimed at supporters of Mr Blair who have argued that the Prime Minister should stay on because Mr Brown was reluctant to take tough decisions that could hamper his bid to become the next Labour leader.

A formal decision is not expected to be taken by the Cabinet until early next year, and Mr Blair has promised a full debate in Parliament and the country on updating the nuclear deterrent.

But Mr Brown's comments will be seen as a further sign that a decision in principle has already been taken by Mr Blair, who believes that renewing the country's nuclear defences will be one of the legacies of his premiership.

At Prime Minister's Questions yesterday, Gordon Prentice, Labour MP for Pendle, said it would be an "absolute outrage" if billions were "squandered" on a new generation of nuclear weapons without a vote by MPs.

Mr Blair confirmed that a decision about replacing Trident would be taken in this Parliament. "There should be the fullest possible debate on this issue," he said. "I am sure there will be."

Until now, Mr Brown has shown little interest in defence, and has been viewed with suspicion by the Armed Forces, who have voiced concern that Treasury pressure for economies has resulted in the forces being overstretched and short of vital equipment.

But the Chancellor has embarked on a campaign to show that he has the qualities to succeed Mr Blair.

His support for updating Trident represents a further break with Labour's past and his own socialist background.

When he first became a Labour MP in 1983, Labour was committed to unilateral nuclear disarmament. His support for the nuclear deterrent could lead to demands for an alternative candidate to challenge the Chancellor if Mr Blair - as seems increasingly likely - steps down next year.

Mr Brown said he was committed to protecting Britain's security, including retaining the nation's independent nuclear deterrent.

Liam Fox, the Conservative defence spokesman, claimed the Chancellor's speech was "just more spin designed to cast Gordon Brown as a statesman".


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events; United Kingdom; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: armsbuildup; astute; baesystems; brown; icbm; miltech; missile; nuclear; ssbn; submarine; subs; trident; uk; vanguard; vanguardclass

1 posted on 06/21/2006 8:02:34 PM PDT by sukhoi-30mki
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To: sukhoi-30mki

We should update all of our nuclear forces.


2 posted on 06/21/2006 9:47:44 PM PDT by garbageseeker (Gentleman, you can't fight in here, this is the War Room - Dr. Strangelove)
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To: sukhoi-30mki
It is amazing our ally recognizes that their systems need updating and nothing is being done here. The United States needs a upgrade in nuclear forces.
3 posted on 06/21/2006 10:43:35 PM PDT by garbageseeker (Gentleman, you can't fight in here, this is the War Room - Dr. Strangelove)
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To: garbageseeker
Mr. Bush was quite the economizer on defense when he came into office, as was his father (who was the original proponent of a "peace dividend").

Dubya is probably murmuring in Tony Blair's ear, "Shut up, Tony!" He needs a frank discussion about nuclear force modernization like he needs a full-blown migraine.

US DoD has done that conversion/upgrade to their "dial-a-nuke" warheads, making them over into ground penetrators with variable yields, but that's about it -- other than the constant build-down and Trident => SSGN conversions.

4 posted on 06/22/2006 1:43:29 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
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To: sukhoi-30mki
I'm confused - I thought the British boats already had Trident II D-5's which they got from a pool maintained by the US.

http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Uk/UKArsenalRecent.html

5 posted on 06/22/2006 1:49:40 AM PDT by Heatseeker
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To: sukhoi-30mki

I sometimes wish that every country in western Europe would build more short range nukes, just before my conscience intervenes. ;-)


6 posted on 06/22/2006 2:07:14 AM PDT by familyop ("Either you're with us, or you're with the terrorists." --President Bush)
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To: sukhoi-30mki
This political posturing by Brown. Tony Blair had in the Labour Party manifesto that by 2010 we would need to pass in the house legalization that we need to upgrade our nukes.

All Brown is doing is repeating what I believe he has already said to emphasis to the left of the party where he will position himself if he becomes leader.

It is also a message to the country that he is not left of Blair which some people fear and he knows if this is the perception they will not re-elect Labour next time.
7 posted on 06/22/2006 3:21:12 AM PDT by snugs ((An English Cheney Chick - BIG TIME))
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To: Heatseeker

They do, the but the lead time on a replacement is such that its sensible to start the process soon.


8 posted on 06/22/2006 10:21:15 AM PDT by Axlrose
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To: lentulusgracchus
Complete modernization of U.S. nuclear forces(from strategic,naval and tactical nuclear forces) is imperative and should be the number one priority in light of rhetoric coming from Russia,Iran, North Korea and the ever growing Chinese threat.
9 posted on 06/22/2006 1:08:49 PM PDT by garbageseeker (Gentleman, you can't fight in here, this is the War Room - Dr. Strangelove)
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To: garbageseeker
Complete modernization of U.S. nuclear forces(from strategic,naval and tactical nuclear forces) is imperative and should be the number one priority in light of rhetoric ....

I concur completely, but I'm not sure Bush made the right play by ordering a $60 billion carve-out in 2001 (pre-9/11) from existing DoD priorities and programs (all Congressionally-approved and budgeted) for the SDI program.

Besides, I have a big, fat constitutional problem with his having done that. When Dick Nixon did it, it was called impoundment, and it was agreed at the time that impoundment was unconstitutional. This is impoundment-plus: "Not only am I, your President, going to impound the Interior Department budget, but I'm going to spend it all on export subsidies -- so there." I don't think you can wash these carve-outs constitutionally. That's a business-management technique, not a good-government technique.

10 posted on 06/24/2006 9:41:56 PM PDT by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
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To: lentulusgracchus
I agree. He has made a bad decision on carving DOD programs for making money available for SDI and theatre defense. I think that out of the nuclear modernization program you can create a very excellent ABM program. However, complete nuclear modernization of naval,strategic(land based),and tactical nuclear programs should be priority number one because we have not had new missile in over 20 years. The B-52 program is being extended to the year 2040. The plane came into full activation in 1953 when Harry Truman was president. Many programs in our arsenal are starting to show their age. The time has come for new U.S. ballistic missile system and a new bomber program to counter Russian and Chinese aspirations.
11 posted on 06/24/2006 10:25:57 PM PDT by garbageseeker (Gentleman, you can't fight in here, this is the War Room - Dr. Strangelove)
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To: garbageseeker
The B-52 program is being extended to the year 2040.

Fifteen years ago they were talking about extending BUFF to 2010.....I'd fairly recently read about some of them being expected to serve past 2020.....but 2040?! Holy bat droppings, Batman! Those airplanes are antiques already; the examples flying now were built in the 1960's (G's and H's, I think, with most of the G models gone now).

On the other side of the chessboard, we see a lot of Russian designs being extended in service, too, including several Antonov transports and the Tu-95 "Bear". Not nearly as true for fighters and other high-G airframes, but you'd think all that vibration would put "Bears" and "Coots" and "Curls" out of business by now. IIRC, the Ilyushin Il-76 "Classic" jet transport is a 30-year-old design now, too, as are some examples of Boeing airliners, especially the 747 workhorse. Some 727's and 737's in third-world, second-tier airline service also have 60's build dates and high hours.

Aircraft, like cars, seem to be lasting a lot longer than they used to, 50 years ago. But a proposed retirement date after 2040 for the B-52 still sounds absolutely fantastic.

12 posted on 06/24/2006 11:15:16 PM PDT by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
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To: lentulusgracchus

That was a unconfirmed rumor date. I have heard with advancements with new cruise missiles and new anti-radar technology that they would extend until 2040.


13 posted on 06/24/2006 11:18:11 PM PDT by garbageseeker (Gentleman, you can't fight in here, this is the War Room - Dr. Strangelove)
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To: lentulusgracchus
These planes are built to last. I have seen the B-52 on several occasions and they are fantastic airplanes.
14 posted on 06/24/2006 11:36:00 PM PDT by garbageseeker (Gentleman, you can't fight in here, this is the War Room - Dr. Strangelove)
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