This Day In History | World War II June 19, 1944 Battle of the Philippine Sea

http://www.historychannel.com/tdih/tdih.jsp?category=worldwarii ^

[R.W.Ratikal]

The Japanese were finished long before the battle of the Philippine Sea. By the middle of 1942 the Japs had, as Admiral Yammamoto said, "run wild for 6 months or a year."

The Battle of Midway was the curtain call for the Japanese military who always displayed a habit of strategic military moves.

In the Philippines Sea battle the Japs lost the Mushasi, the sister ship of Yamoto, the largest battleship ever built up to that date. This, more than anything else, showed how screwed up the Japanese military mind really was.

After demonstrating how obsolete the battleship was by their ambush attack on Pearl Harbor, in which they used fast carrier forces, they proceed to put their major navel building emphasis on battleships.

[RSmithOpt]

The world today is probably much better off that the Japs and Hitler made the strategic blunders they did. Still WWII created around 30 million deaths on all sides military and civilian .... a little fact the MSM forgets to mention with comparison to the 2500 American military deaths from Iraq and Afghanistan.

[PzLdr]

I believe MUSHASHI was sunk at the Battle of Leyte Gulf.

[PzLdr]

The Japanese never seriously expanded the number of flight schools, nor lengthened the course of instruction for their new pilots.

The advantage they had early in the war rested, in large part, on veteran flight crews who had had years of fighting in China under their belt. That advantage disappeared with each aircraft lost; and the real victory at Midway was not so much the sinking of AKAGI, KAGA, SORYU and HIRYU, significant though they were, but the loss of the pilots and air crewmen from their aircraft.The Japanese never regained qualitative equivalence let alone superiority after Midway. As the Turkey Shoot demonstrates, the quality of their pilots steadily deteriorated.

And one of the Saipan commanders the article refers to, Nagumo, was Admiral Chuichi Nagumo, commander of the Pearl Harbor Strike Force, and the carriers at Midway. After that fiasco, he was relieved and sent to Saipan in disgrace.

[Wombat101]

"After demonstrating how obsolete the battleship was by their ambush attack on Pearl Harbor, in which they used fast carrier forces, they proceed to put their major navel building emphasis on battleships."

After Midway, Japan built on 7 further aircraft carriers, and some of these were conversions (ships hastily equipped with any form of flight deck. The most famous of these would be the combo BB/CV's the Japanese sent to Leyte Gulf as bait).

In contrast, the United States built over 100 aircraft carriers (CV, CVL and CVE).

American waship production throughout the war outstripped Japan's by a 16:1 margin.

By the end of the war, the United States completed, launched and manned an entire task group equal in strength to the Japanese fleet that attacked Pearl Harbor EVERY FOUR MONTHS.

[magslinger]

By the end of the war, the United States completed, launched and manned an entire task group equal in strength to the Japanese fleet that attacked Pearl Harbor EVERY FOUR MONTHS.

Japan, along with just about every other nation that has ever attacked us, and some that haven't attacked yet, thought we were soft, without considering how much prodution capability it takes to make our lives as easy as they are.

[Wombat101]

What was that old saw about those who forget the lessons of history?

Very often, the attitude you speak of is simple racism and chauvanism. On the Japanese part, thais attitude tended to believe that a naturally "martial" people (like the Japanese), or, a people who were "divine" (like the Japanese), could easily outfight and outwit "soft" westerners who did nothing but persue the comforts to be purchased with "stolen" wealth all day.

Little do they know just how much of he knowledge gained in the reckless pursuit of wealth finds it's way into our military strategies and conventions. That mistake usually comes back to haunt them in ways that are not exactly obvious to most folks.

[magslinger]

Exactly so. Although most of the Japanese were polite, I did run into some of the superiorty you mention that was still present when I was stationed there 25 years ago. I did not run across any of this attitude in the JMSDF however. Although as good, possibly better, man for man, they were very aware how many more of us there were and that they were using our hand-me-downs. We worked and played well together.

I did get the chance to talk at length with man who was to be an antitank weapon delivery system when we invaded. He was 12 when the war ended, and he had been trained to dive under a tank and detonate his satchel charge. He felt that our use of the atom bomb saved his life.

[Wombat101]

Could you imagine how differently the war would have gone if the Japanese had their own versions of Henry Kaiser, Jack Northrup, Kelly Johnson or Andrew Higgins?

I'm sure they did have men of this caliber, in terms of technical skill and native genius, but the system under which they had to operate kept them from rising to the occasion.

It's fortunate for us that Japanese culture was such a drag on their overall war effort.

[magslinger]

It's fortunate for us that Japanese culture was such a drag on their overall war effort.

If their culture/government had been more like ours, would they have attacked us, or just buried us economically like everyone said they were going to in the '80's?

[Wombat101]

Japan could never bury America economically, either in 1941 or 1981. When it comes to sheer industrial potential, no country on earth can match this one, especially a nation that has no native resources of it's own and which (at the time) barely fed itself.

As to whether or not they would have started the war in the first place? I say it's possible they would have, even if Japanese institutions more closely mirrored their western counterparts. After all, Germany and Italy found themselves ruled by conquest-minded madmen, why should Japan have been immune to this? Had civilian authority done the "right" thing and embarrassed the Kwangtung Army, fired and tried it's leaders, and re-established democratic principles in 1931, the entirety of the Pacific War just might have been avoided.

But that's a tall order. Especially given the huge number of assassinations of Japanese civil authorities and political rivals throughought the 1930's. Of course, there's also the question of Hirohito; he could have put the genie back in the bottle with a nod and a wave, but instead followed custom and remained silent (of course, it'spossible HE would have been assassinated, to, if he tried).

[reagan_fanatic]

By the end of the war, the United States completed, launched and manned an entire task group equal in strength to the Japanese fleet that attacked Pearl Harbor EVERY FOUR MONTHS.

That was the real marvel of the United States. No other nation in history was capable of such stupendous productivity. It is a tribute to every man and woman who fought the battles and worked behind the scenes.

[PzLdr]

They even converted the third YAMATO hull, SHINANO, into an aircraft carrier, complete with armored deck [ the largest flattop of WW II]. Sunk by a combination of the U.S.S ARCHERFISH's torpedo and her own Captain's stupidity.

The Japanese also converted at least two of their battleships [ISE and FUSO?] into hybrids, by removing the aft turrets and putting in a flight deck. They also converted some of their largest submarines into carriers for float planes.

[PzLdr]

Unfortunately, the Meiji Constitution gave the Japanese military a stranglehold on the government, since the War Minister was a military man, and by not nominating one, or having the War Minister resign, the military could prevent a government from forming, or force one to resign.

[kabar]

Still WWII created around 30 million deaths on all sides military and civilian ....

Try 60 million. World War II: Combatants and Casualties (1937 - 45)

[RSmithOpt]

Thanks for the link....I didn't realize that so many Chinese civilians were massacred. I had seen a table years back from which I was referring.

[kabar]

All in all, American losses aboard ship and in planes during the Philippine Sea battle barely numbered 200. Against these must be counted the Japanese lost in Shokaku, Taiho and Hiyo (in each case about two-thirds of the ships’ company) and the oilers destroyed, as well as in the some 400 planes which were lost from the carriers. It was, all in all, a telling count. Not even at the best of its times had the Japanese Navy’s air arm inflicted remotely as severe casualties as the U.S. had over the Philippine Sea. American superiority in radar, in fighter strength and proficiency, and mere numerically advantages made any engagement with the U.S. Navy an almost suicidal matter.

[Wombat101]

"American superiority in radar, in fighter strength and proficiency, and mere numerically advantages made any engagement with the U.S. Navy an almost suicidal matter."

For all that, it still only took one nervous admiral to turn almost certain victory over the Americans to certain defeat at Leyte Gulf.

[VOA]

More info (and good photos) here:
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-fornv/japan/japsh-m/musashi.htm