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To: wagglebee; DBeers; Lucky Dog

This is such a complex issue, far more complicated that being 'born' homosexual, or it being a 'choice'.

My own opinion is that 'homosexual orientation' manifests from numerous circumstances, which would enable some to be cured through therapy, and others not.

Here are some possible suggested 'varieties', thrown into the pot for concideration:

1. 'homosexual orientation' is formed while in the womb - in this case it isn't genetic, but would be unlikely to be curable through therapy (these might be cases where physical features and manerisms attributed to homosexuals are present).

2. 'homosexual orientation' is 'learned' because of sexual abuse during childhood - therapy might work, since this isn't necesarily a 'chemical' formation as in the womb, but it has been imposed during vulnerable formative years.

3. a homosexual practitioner who is simply prone to sexual addiction, and does it because it's 'interestingly perverted'

4. 'homosexual practitioners' who have been encouraged into it during teen years, and decided they like it

This provides a real variety of 'types' of homosexual.
(More in my profile.)

I believe it to be blinkered to say that every homosexual can be cured of homosexual desires -- just as saying that homosexuality cannot be cured is also equally as blinkered.

It really isn't so simple.

This said... all of these cases are disorders and deviant perversions of nature. Even if cases were proved to be incurable, or individuals chose not to accept therapy, it doesn't make acting on their sexual desires with others a right or good thing.
There is such a thing as abstainance, or private mastabation, where society isn't 'polluted' by the disorder. The offer of cure is a very positive thing, for those who might benefit from it. For others, they need educating to accept that they have a disorder, and that indulging it with others is a dangerous and destructive path.


20 posted on 06/18/2006 6:41:28 AM PDT by mikeyc
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To: mikeyc
What you have posted makes sense. Assuming a normal distribution describes the homosexual population then it would make sense that there may be a potentially incurable or quite difficult to cure minority on one end of the spectrum with deep-seated homosexual tendencies comprising the full spectrum of causes (biological or behavioral and combinations thereof).

Biological would necessarily require medication and or hormone therapy etcetera while behavioral would require psychotherapy and behavior modification...

Determining the best most effective treatments(s) would require comprehensive testing and diagnosis. I do not think methods of comprehensive testing and diagnosis are being meaningfully pursued by science and or academia?

21 posted on 06/18/2006 11:36:05 AM PDT by DBeers (†)
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To: mikeyc; wagglebee; DBeers
This is such a complex issue, far more complicated that being 'born' homosexual, or it being a 'choice'.

Disagree. Behavior is the issue. How one “feels or thinks,” or why, is a private issue to the individual experiencing those “thoughts” and/or “feelings.” Only if, and when, the individual “acts” on “feelings” or “thoughts,” is there any reason for someone beyond the individual experiencing aberrant “feelings” to be concerned or involved.

My own opinion is that 'homosexual orientation' manifests from numerous circumstances, which would enable some to be cured through therapy, and others not.

Unless individual compassion and concern for others dictate that a “cure” be pursued, all that is societally required is to dissuade homosexual practitioners from engaging in their activity.

1. 'homosexual orientation' is formed while in the womb - in this case it isn't genetic, but would be unlikely to be curable through therapy (these might be cases where physical features and manerisms attributed to homosexuals are present).

This argument makes homosexuality a non-genetic “birth defect.” As such, just like genetic defects, it is still subject to research and cure. However, such research is actively opposed by homosexual activists. As there is no mentally healthy person who would not choose to forego a birth defect, the only conclusion is that, either, it is not a birth defect or it is a mental illness. Which is it?

2. 'homosexual orientation' is 'learned' because of sexual abuse during childhood - therapy might work, since this isn't necesarily a 'chemical' formation as in the womb, but it has been imposed during vulnerable formative years.

This argument is a variant of the “deterministic” argument that a human is a prisoner of his or her past environment and is helpless to alter the impacts of such. Experience and history logically defeat this assertion. If it were not so, humanity would still be living in caves. Consequently, it is safe to assert that which is “learned” can be countered, or, “unlearned,” if you will. The appropriate solution is psycho-therapy.

3. a homosexual practitioner who is simply prone to sexual addiction, and does it because it's 'interestingly perverted'

This is confirmation of the assertion that homosexual activity is a “behavioral choice.” As such it is subject to the same behavioral regulation as all human behavior.

4. 'homosexual practitioners' who have been encouraged into it during teen years, and decided they like it

As with the previous assertion, this is confirmation of the assertion that homosexual activity is a “behavioral choice.” As such it is subject to the same behavioral regulation as all human behavior.

This provides a real variety of 'types' of homosexual.

(More in my profile.)

I believe it to be blinkered to say that every homosexual can be cured of homosexual desires -- just as saying that homosexuality cannot be cured is also equally as blinkered.


No argument. However, it is fair to say: “Who cares?” If the homosexual practitioner does not engage in the activity, what constitutes his or her “desires” privately is irrelevant to everyone but the homosexual.

It really isn't so simple.

Again, it is fair to ask: “Who cares?”

This said... all of these cases are disorders and deviant perversions of nature. Even if cases were proved to be incurable, or individuals chose not to accept therapy, it doesn't make acting on their sexual desires with others a right or good thing.

My point exactly…

There is such a thing as abstainance, or private mastabation, where society isn't 'polluted' by the disorder. The offer of cure is a very positive thing, for those who might benefit from it. For others, they need educating to accept that they have a disorder, and that indulging it with others is a dangerous and destructive path.

Again, my point exactly…
23 posted on 06/18/2006 12:13:52 PM PDT by Lucky Dog
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