Posted on 06/17/2006 11:21:32 AM PDT by NormsRevenge
OK I did that. I clicked on the first one that came up that had the same numbers in it:
"Notes About Koran"To help some readers find certain quotes, like Surah 9.5 (Surah: 9, Ayah 5, or The Immunity 9.5), we have copied the following notes on the Koran, ...
www.gospelweb.net/CultureWar/notesaboutkoran.htm - 9k -
The Koran consists of 114 chapters, called Surah (pl. Suwar), they are also given names. Surah 1 is called The Opening, Surah 9 would be The Immunity, and so on (see below for the complete list of Suwar).
So, Surah 9.123 would be The Immunity, verse (Ayah) 123, which reads:
"O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil)."
Surah 9.5 would be The Immunity, verse (Ayah) 5, which reads:
"So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."
You might find the above referred to as: The Immunity 9.123, The Immunity 9.5, or as quoted Surah: 9, Ayah 123, and Surah: 9, Ayah 5, and so on.
Surah: 4, Ayah: 91 quoted in part:
".... then seize them and kill them wherever you find them; and against these We have given you a clear authority."
NOW WHAT?
"I WILL LET THE MAN SPEAK FOR HIMSELF:"
... and by his own words he is proven to edit the quote of Sura 9:5
Why do YOU think he chose to leave out the portion that shows that this applies during a time of war ?
... and the previous verse 9:4, which specifically mentions the possibility of a treaty of peace with their enemy ?
'... and the previous verse 9:4, which specifically mentions the possibility of a treaty of peace with their enemy ?'
Then be a good little Freeper and PRINT THE DARN THING SO WE CAN ALL READ IT!
I'm closing down and going out but in case you hadn't noticed there are others who might be interested....
"So when the sacred months have passed away,....
This shows that this is during a time of war, the preceding verse mentions that this is against people that you do not have a peace treaty with ...
Is slaying your enemy wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush NOT what you are supposed to do in warfare ?
I certainly hope that our soldiers are taking this advice against Al-queda in Iraq, the remnants of the Taliban in Afganistan, and anyone else of ANY religion that wants to be at war with us.
"Then be a good little Freeper and PRINT THE DARN THING SO WE CAN ALL READ IT! "
Whatsa' matter Fred ? Can't find it on the site YOU use as your source, from the links YOU supplied ?
“The Qur’an is a scripture with a history like any other, except we don’t know this history and tend to provoke howls of protest when we study it. Nobody would mind the howls if they came from Westerners, but Westerners feel deferential when the howls come from other people. Muslims shout: ‘Who are you to tamper with our legacy?’”
Personally, I share William Muir’s perspective. Many consider Muir to be Islam’s foremost scholar. He contends: “The Qur’an is the most stubborn enemy of Civilization, Liberty, and Truth which the world has yet known.”
But Muslims would rather be indoctrinated than investigate. The truth frightens them, as do facts and rational thought. They routinely reject all non-Islamic study of the Qur’an. Unable to refute the assault on their holy books with facts, history, or reason they simply assail the messengers of news they do not want to hear.
An Egyptian doctor who edited Prophet of Doom explained: “Their response is psychological. It is what you’d expect from someone who has been told that their religion is a delusion. The revelation triggers a defense mechanism of anger. This what I faced every time I tried to discuss Islam with them. Our only hope is that Muslims learn to contain their anger and then make use of their minds. But I’m afraid that will not be tolerated by those who benefit from imposing Islam. If Islam suddenly disappears, Muslim clerics and kings, dictators and terrorists, would lose their power and funding. A million Islamic clergy, dictators, and terrorists would instantly be out of work.”
http://prophetofdoom.net/chapter.aspx?g=401&i=41041
"An Egyptian doctor who edited Prophet of Doom explained..."
He simply says it so much better than I.
Ouch! Muhammad's Lord chafes when he's called a plagiarizer. Must be hitting a little too close to home. Let's turn to the Sira to see how close...
Ishaq:180 “According to my information, the Apostle often sat by a young Christian slave named Jabr. The Meccans said, ‘He is the one who teaches Muhammad most of what he brings.' Then Allah revealed, Qur'an 16.103 ‘We know what they (pagans) say: “It is only a mortal man who teaches him (Muhammad). But the tongue of the man they wickedly point to is notably foreign, while this (Qur'an) is pure Arabic.'”
When accused of plagiarism, the best Team Islam could do was to claim that the Bible Jabr was quoting from wasn't written in Arabic. That's a problem.
First, by responding to the Meccan's claim that Muhammad was out of his mind, a demon-possessed madman, plagiarizing scripture, the Qur'an confirmed that these were legitimate concerns. Muhammad's kin were convinced he was demon possessed and insane.
http://prophetofdoom.net/chapter.aspx?g=401&i=41019
Fred, if you're simply going to copy someone else's thoughts and expect me to respond to them, please don't bother.
He supposedly quotes from a book that took him years to find - I've already shown by his own site that he edits "quotes" to his liking, so now I'm supposed to believe him when HE knows there is very little chance of anyone calling him on it ?
Don't waste your time ...
Don't waste your time ...
Advice taken.
Hey, this might interest you ...
http://prophetofdoom.net/chapter.aspx?g=401&i=41003
"Five of my twelve translations of the Qur'an were combined to create the most accurate conveyance of the message possible. " ~ "I have trimmed their unruly word patterns and meaningless repetitions, being careful not to alter the meaning or message of any passage."
Well, that answers it - HE decides what the "unaltered" meaning is from combining 5 of 12 translations, and writes as "quotes" what best conveys HIS interpretation of the meaning.
Funny how he says that he has done this to " help Allah and Muhammad out by cleaning up their grammar, punctuation, and verbosity."
It's almost as if he forgets that he is working from someone else's translations instead of the original Arabic.
"... if Arabic was Allah's chosen language for revelation, why were “his” earlier revelations written in Hebrew and Greek? And as illiterates, Team Islam remains confused as to how translations work. Words are just tools, names for things and ideas mankind uses to convey a message. Every language has a word for demon, god, mad, and plagiarize. But this argument goes to the root of why today's Muslims say their Qur'anic message can't be translated—they still don't understand the nature of language. Little do they know, the Greek Gospels they are so fond of claiming credit for literally began their existence as translations of Aramaic conversations.
Fourth, the source of the Qur'an's inspiration and its audience was so dimwitted, the claim was posited that changing the language obfuscated the source. That's as lame as Muslims claiming that Muhammad couldn't have stolen his Qur'an from the Bible because he couldn't read's.ggesting the surahs were miraculous. Yet even the Qur'an pokes holes in this argument by saying the Jews incorrectly read their scriptures to Muhammad, saying words that weren't really on their scrolls. All this Christian source had to do was to verbally convey the gist of the Biblical stories. And judging by the quality of the material we are reading, the prophet was qualified to twist them from there.
Fifth, by bringing this argument, the Qur'an injured itself. The rebuttal is a lie. The Qur'an wasn't written in “pure Arabic.” The plethora of parentheses in the Qur'an text we have been examining proves this. They were put there to fill in missing words, fix the grammatical errors, solve the problem of dangling participles, and render a discernable message. Moreover, as you'll discover in the “Source Material” appendix, the Qur'an's most important words are foreign. They are Christian Syriac or Rabbinic Hebrew. Allah's book contains many words that have no meaning in any language, including Arabic. In its defense, the Qur'an says only Allah knows what they mean. But that defeats the whole purpose of scripture..."
Keep reading ProphetofDoom...it's very educational.
He's really strange here -
"Every language has a word for demon, god, mad, and plagiarize."
"plagiarize" ? Wonder how many languages that never used writing at all would have anything near that word ?
"The Qur'an wasn't written in “pure Arabic.” The plethora of parentheses in the Qur'an text we have been examining proves this. They were put there to fill in missing words, fix the grammatical errors, solve the problem of dangling participles, and render a discernable message."
He proves that the original is incorrect in it's grammer by examining the english translations of it ?
Is he so foolish he dosen't realize that having 12 different translations means that much better men then him can find different ways to interpret something ?
Just noticed this ...
"They were put there to fill in missing words, fix the grammatical errors, solve the problem of dangling participles, and render a discernable message."
"...and render a discernable message" ????
If the message were not discernable, just how did these translators figure out what the message was ?
Just how do you translate something without understanding what it's saying ?
Is he saying the translations he relies on are made up ?
But no, your PROFITofDoom ( Mr. Winn ) has to add this line in to give himself cover for his earlier statement regarding his editing these translations to convey HIS meaning.
http://cultlink.com/plagiarism/newrelchart.htm
Name of Religion
Primary Text(s)
Public accusations on where the texts plagiarized from
Islam
The Qur’an and the hadiths
The Hebrew scriptures and the Christian New Testament, sometimes word for word, but often with alterations to the text. Jewish apocryphal literature (including the Talmud) also taken.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormonism)
The Book of Mormon, The Pearl of Great Price and Doctrines and Covenants
The Bible, both the Old Testament and the New. Scholars allege that Solomon Spalding’s (1761-1816) book The Manuscript Found, a novel, was an early version of The Book of Mormon that Mormon founder Joseph Smith allegedly took and presented to the world. Part of The Pearl of Great Price came from the Egyptian Book of Breathings.
The Church of Christ, Scientist (Christian Science)
Mary Baker Eddy’s book, Science and Health, the Key to the Scriptures. Eddy was the founder of the Christian Science sect.
Her work extensively plagiarized Phineas Quimby’s Science of Man. She also plagiarized Francis Lieber. Eddy was an associate of Quimby’s.
Seventh Day Adventism
Ellen G. White, the founder of the sect, wrote a number of key documents guiding Adventism, which was an offshoot of the Millerite movement of the 1840s. One of them is called The Great Controversy.
Joseph Smith’s Pearl of Great Price, the apocryypha, John Milton’s Paradise Lost, The Book of Jasher, Adersheim’s Bible History: Old Testament and The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah, and others.
The Theosophical Society
Founder Helena Petrovna Blavatsky’s guiding books of the movement were titled Isis Unveiled and The Secret Doctrine.
Books plagiarized from more than 100 sources, including The Celtic Druids and Anacalypsis by Godfrey Higgins
Eckankar
This twentieth century sect was founded upon the writings of Paul Twitchell, who wrote several books, including The Far Country.
Plagiarized from Julian Johnson’s The Path of the Masters.
The Way, International
A twentieth century anti-trinitarian evangelical sect was founded upon the writings and teachings of Victor Paul Wierwille. One of Wierwille’s foundational books is Receiving the Holy Spirit (1972).
Plagiarized from J.E. Stiles’ book, The Gift of the Holy Spirit. Researchers examining Wierwille’s other writing say he plagiarized from at least seven other books, including works by E.W. Kenyon and E.W. Bullinger.
The Jain Sect
This sect, founded in India more than 2,500 years ago making it one of the oldest living religions, has had its teachings altered at various times in its history.
Seventeenth-century cleric called Úrîbhûsana plagiarized another work titled Pândavapurâna from a rival sect.
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PlagiarismTaken from the Latin words plagiaries, meaning plunderer, and plagium, meaning kidnapping, plagiarism means "to steal and use (the ideas or writings of ...
www.mnstate.edu/gracyk/ expectations%20of%20students/plagiarism%20warning.htm
Does this somehow prove your PROFITofDoom's revelation that EVERY language has a word for plagiarize ?
But I'm sure he didn't mean that literally, we are supposed to interpret the meaning of what he says.
I choose to interpret it as an attempt to make the reader think he is more educated on the subject of language then he is.
Plagiarism — ... refers to the use of another's ideas, information, language, or writing, when done without proper ...
According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plagiarism
Your point ? ... You've defined it in English -
Are you saying that is what your PROFITofDoom meant when he said "Every language has a word for demon, god, mad, and plagiarize."
That Every = English in ProfitofDoom-speak ?
Plagiarism — ... refers to the use of another's ideas, information, language, or writing...
It's simply another form of THEFT.
Plagiarism: Page 1 of 7: IntroductionYou have only to enter "plagiarism" in a web search engine and find nearly 100000 links to know that plagiarism, theft of words, is a serious matter for ...
www.english.vt.edu/~IDLE/plagiarism/plagiarism1.html - 15k -
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