Posted on 06/17/2006 5:15:15 AM PDT by wintertime
One of the ongoing controversies in the public schools is the issue of teacher salaries. Teachers largely claim they are too low while taxpayers are equally vehement that they are more than adequate.
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Then there are the actual salary levels. Statistics in 2005 showed the average teacher salary in the nation was $46,762, ranging from a low of $33,236 in South Dakota to $57,337 in Connecticut. Even this ignores the additional compensation teachers receive as fringe benefits, which may add an additional 33% or more to the costs, primarily for very good retirement and health coverage plans. Further, averages include starting teacher salaries, which may begin at $30,000 or less, which teachers gladly mention, but ignore the high salaries of career teachers at or near the maximum on their salary schedule, important because retirement pensions are often based on the best three or so years.
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Last year, the New York State Department of Education issued a study that reported maximum teacher salaries in that state of $100,000 or more and median salaries as high as $98,000 per year. That is, there were districts, in Westchester County for example, where half of the teachers earned more than $98,000 a year.
A novel approach a few years ago by Michael Antonucci, director of the Education Intelligence Agency in California, compared teachers average salaries to average salaries all workers state by state. First prize went to Pennsylvania where the teachers received 62.5% more than the average employee. That difference is even greater when it is further considered that teachers average a 185 day work year while most workers put in 235.
(snip) Women who had been educators were 7.4% of the total deceased that year but 20.6% of them, nearly three times the statistical expectation were among the affluent few. Former male educators didn't do quite as well but even they were represented among the wealthy decedents by a ratio nearly 1.5 times the anticipated numerical ratio.
ROFL! Sad but true about the modern teaching "profession".
That's if you plan them so that all children learn. My daughter was a high achiever, my son was a lazy learner. They both agreed that group projects are great for the teachers because the bright students do the work because the want good grades, the lazy students get the grade without doing anything, and the teachers said they had fewer papers to grade that way.
Tenured and making 11k? Probably not bad money in 1950.
In Boston many of the part-time professors are making that now. There are so many Ph.D.'s around that universities take advantage of their situation. Starting salaries for full-time, tenure track professors can be very low at some well known schools. Yes, lower than elementary school teachers!
As a Pennsylvania taxpayer, I can commiserate with you.
Here is the main difference between a teaching job and a "regular"job-
In a regular job,if I walk into the office and call my supervisor a bitch,a nigga and a MF punk,tell her I"ain't doing s***""and start throwing stuff around the office,security will immediately come to remove me from the premises and I will almost certainly be fired.
If I am sixteen and do that in an American public school,I MAY get a three day suspension IF the school has a "tough"disciplinary policy.
Many of those districts could definitely improve, although there are a few great schools in those type of districts.
It's more difficult when you have students coming from dysfunctional families, being raised by one parent, parent(s) who had said children at age 14 or so, or maybe grandma or auntie because the parents are in jail or on drugs. Or maybe they're living with the drug addicts.
That sort of district generally has high absenteeism, lots of behavior problems, and students generally aren't exposed to reading at home. Some schools do a great job, but it's very hard for schools to do it all.
I have been to your fair city. I'm in Va. and our school is the 3rd oldest school in the state-we celebrated our 250 b-day not long ago. They don't mind putting millions into new schools down here either. The newest ones have hands free sinks and motion sensored lighting. Pretty is as pretty does though, and our school despite being moldy and pretty rundown by comparison, has one of the highest achievement rates around.
True, in 1950, $4000 was good. Unfortunately, I got that in the 1970s (which is one reason I left.) Even tenured professors teach 4-5 courses/semester (of 20 to 100 students) and grade their own papers. Things are supposed to be better now.
Nothing is wrong with it, the comment was directed at the level of dedication that it showed. She was an average teacher, who was not motivated by inspiration to teach. It seems to me that most of the (conservative) teachers here at FR are the motivated kind of teachers we would love to have - I just don't think they are the norm. My neighbor is the norm.
Again, what's wrong with this? If the schools are set up so that she has free periods [I'm jealous], why shouldn't she use them for grading papers? It's obviously part of her job. What would you have her do during her free periods?
There's nothing wrong with it, the point is that she's representative of the vast majority of teachers (at least in my area) who absolutely do NOT put in 50-60 hours a week, with coming in early, staying late, and grading papers at home. If we had a rational structure for teacher salaries instead of the union structure, the people who put in additional time to be better teachers would be paid more while those who put in minimal time and got minimal results would be paid less. That's not the case though, and the current salary structure encourages those who would do less to go into teaching and discourages those who would do more.
That story doesn't pass the smell test. There are some critical details missing.
It's still a small town mentality here even though the population is becoming more small city. Also, she's a conservative in a liberal college town. Another friend of mine did get a job here, and she's definitely a party line whining teacher. She also was willing to take whatever job was open because her husband was often out of work.
they are better paid than MOST people....work less, get more defined and ever lasting benefits...
did you know that even with their skimpy hours, teachers are "awarded" sick time...my sister got half a years pay when she retired...
and did you know that the school districts invaribly PAY for those masters degrees...by increasing compensation for every stinking class no matter what.....an unneeded one at that...I know this was true here locally...
I have learned the teacher mantra years ago....
but who do you think the Howood elitist group wants to PAY MORE for ...?...not soldiers, not cops, not nurses.......
>>>It's more difficult when you have students coming from dysfunctional families, being raised by one parent, parent(s) who had said children at age 14 or so, or maybe grandma or auntie because the parents are in jail or on drugs. Or maybe they're living with the drug addicts.<<<
This is true, and very often the most idealistic and caring young teachers can be found in these districts.
This is true, and very often the most idealistic and caring young teachers can be found in these districts.
Who quickly turn into cynical, raging alcoholics who pop prozac like breath mints.
lesson for kids....work only for the govt because you will get a whole bunch of money and benefits ....
Some of them should get additional combat pay!
My cousin who taught Special Ed in Queens, NY, took early retirement the day after two students were shot dead outside her classroom door!
What state are you in? That sounds kind of like Kansas....I would kill for 60 K after 20 years.
That is why I am looking into journalism instead. No, I would not make much money in that field, unless I really hit the big time, which is highly unlikely. And, I would have no holidays, virtually no vacation, no weekends free. But, I love to write. And, unlike teaching, once I got home around 6/7 or so, I could actually spend time with my family instead of having to grade papers, plan lessons etc. But, after 20 years, I would have the seniority to actually be able to have Christmas off (wow, what a concept), and I certainly would make more than 40 grand a year. Probably about 55K, and that would be about the ceiling for pay in journalism unless I hit one of the top-5 papers in the nation.
So, the ceiling would be similar to teaching. But, I would probably get there quicker despite similar starting salaries. On the other hand, I could retire from teaching early and pursue another career later, such as journalism.
I don't know. I am student teaching in the fall and will see if I really do want to be a history teacher. I could end up teaching journalism in addition to history, and that would get my journalism side fulfilled, or I could write for a small newspaper during the summer.
I love both teaching and journalism so much....it is incredibly, incredibly hard to decide which route to pursue, and I hope God leads me to the way soon.
But, whatever I do, you are correct that teachers are not the overpaid lazy bums portrayed on this site. At least most aren't. They work HARD for the money.
And, I can't think of anything as worthy as the calling to help a future generation of students learn.
My hat is off to you and other Freeper teachers.
Nurses get a bad deal. They should have unionized, like the teachers, I guess. Or figure out how to get their salaries and benefits paid by the taxes imposed on homeowners.
A lot of kids these days are damaged beyond repair before they even set foot in a classroom. Probably the best the teaches can hope for is instilling some vague sense that there are some rules in the world...
Illinois Public School: Salaries and Pensions
http://www.illinoisloop.org/salary.html
Who gets paid more, President Bush or a north suburban school superintendent? To find out, check out Illinoisloop.org's web page that lists some facts and links to even more regarding public school employee salaries and pensions.
Across the top of the page are the salaries of the Illinois Governor ($150,691) and a few others, including one north suburban school superintendent.
School Salary* Database
Please select a year 2005 2004 2003 2002 2001 2000 1999
or
or
Select other salary options... Average Administrator Salary Average Teacher Salary Top 100 Administrator Salaries Top 100 Teacher Salaries
Javascript Disabled Search
Top 100 Administrator Salaries
2005 search results.
Click 'Administrator Name' or 'Salary' or 'District Name' to re-sort data by that field.
Name Salary District Name
Hintz James $361,146 ADLAI E STEVENSON DIST 125
Bangser Henry S $345,600 NEW TRIER TWP H S DIST 203
Hyland Timothy F. $321,158 GLENBARD TWP H S DIST 87
Catalani Gary $311,075 COMMUNITY UNIT SCHOOL DIST 200
Vanderbogert M R $293,167 WINNETKA SCHOOL DIST 36
Conti Dennis R $291,263 WOODLAND C C SCHOOL DIST 50
Ennis Elizabeth A $288,512 TOWNSHIP HIGH SCHOOL DIST 214
Rossi Harry $278,168 NORTHBROOK/GLENVIEW SCH DIST 30
Burns Kevin G $276,617 COMMUNITY HIGH SCHOOL DIST 218
Lamberson Jonathan $273,440 LAKE FOREST COMM H S DISTRICT 115
Baskin Lawrence M $271,667 GLEN ELLYN C C SCHOOL DIST 89
Curley Mary $267,624 C C SCHOOL DIST 181
Marks Linda $266,461 GOLF ELEM SCHOOL DIST 67
Strande Robert $257,491 PALATINE C C SCHOOL DIST 15
Murray Laura $257,030 HOMEWOOD FLOSSMOOR C H S D 233
Kanold Timothy $252,740 ADLAI E STEVENSON DIST 125
Ryan Thomas $251,947 COMM CONS SCHOOL DIST 168
Eagle Sherry $250,907 AURORA WEST UNIT SCHOOL DIST 129
Aksamit Edward F $250,822 CICERO SCHOOL DISTRICT 99
Kelly Dennis G $249,366 LYONS TWP H S DIST 204
Crocker Gregg $247,157 WHEELING C C SCHOOL DIST 21
Hager Maureen $245,257 NORTH SHORE SD 112
Fagan John $244,361 OAK PARK ELEM SCHOOL DIST 97
Across the top of the page are the salaries of the Illinois Governor ($150,691) and a few others, including one north suburban school superintendent.
I think that Ann Coulter hit the nail on the head when asked about teachers pay... That some teachers probably ARE underpaid... The really good ones. But there are far more who are vastly overpaid, and those are the ones who need to be let go, or at least, paid what they deserve. She's a believer in "Merit Pay." And so am I.
Another problem I have are the exorbitant salaries paid to administrators in the school districts. It's shocking to see some of the salaries paid out in districts where the kids are failing at stagering rates. Again, merit pay needs to be brought in here.
When I was young, I had some teachers who were absolutely wonderful, who challenged the students, and made learning something that you wanted to do. I had other teachers who were miserable at their jobs, who couldn't teach worth a damn, and who had no interest in trying to motivate their students: While this certainly isn't a job of teachers at the college level, I believe that motivation of the students in gradeschool and secondary schools is extremely important, because that motivation, or lack there or, will effect the study habbits of the students for the rest of their education years.
Mark
Boy, do I have anecdotes to prove your statement. (I have a lot of teacher relatives and friends).
An older retired teacher friend of mine was bored and decided to do some substituting in a city school. They gave her a kindergarten class. At recess, a little boy was running after a little girl, wagging his exposed tiny willy at her, and yelling "Git down, 'ho!"
I am not making this up.
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