Posted on 06/15/2006 12:56:52 PM PDT by Kahonek
GREENSBORO, N.C. (BP)--Messengers to the 2006 Southern Baptist Convention adopted resolutions on such currently controversial topics as immigration and the environment June 14, but the debate time was dominated by an issue addressed repeatedly in the convention’s 161-year history -- alcohol.
A lengthy debate on a recommendation concerning the use of alcoholic beverages consumed the Resolution Committee’s report in the morning session. In a departure from recent years, the committee needed the evening session to complete its report.
When the back-and-forth on alcohol finally ended, the messengers passed with about a four-fifths majority a resolution not only opposing the manufacture and consumption of alcohol but urging the exclusion of Southern Baptists who drink from election to the convention’s boards, committees and entities. Like other resolutions, it is not binding on SBC churches and entities.
The resolution’s supporters contended the action was needed because some Christians believe they may drink based on a wrong interpretation of the believer’s “freedom in Christ.” They said abstaining from alcohol preserves a Christian’s purity and testimony, while drinking can be a “stumbling block” for others and has destructive results.
Opponents argued that the resolution promoted a position based on Southern Baptist tradition instead of Scripture, which describes the use of wine in the Old and New Testaments. Concern also was expressed that a resolution excluding those who drink alcohol could be the start of a list of sins that would disqualify people from serving in the convention.
The passage of the resolution marked the first time the SBC had approved an alcohol-related recommendation since 1991, according to the records of the convention’s Executive Committee. The 15-year gap is the longest between approved resolutions on alcohol since the convention adopted its first such recorded measure on the topic in 1886. In all, the SBC has approved 57 resolutions related to alcohol since that year.
T.C. French, chairman of the Resolutions Committee, acknowledged afterward that the panel was a “little surprised” the alcohol measure dominated debate, considering some of the other issues addressed in the 15 resolutions.
“We felt like since we had not presented [a resolution] on alcohol in a number of years, we felt like we needed to get that done,” French told reporters.
The committee offered the resolution without recommending any restriction in SBC life for those who consume alcohol. Jim Richards, executive director of the Southern Baptists of Texas Convention and a messenger from First Baptist Church of Fort Worth, Texas, introduced on the floor an amendment calling for abstinence among those serving in the SBC, and the Resolutions Committee endorsed his recommendation.
The amendment, which also passed with about four-fifths of messengers in favor, said: “Resolved, that we urge that no one be elected to serve as a trustee or a member of any entity or committee of the Southern Baptist Convention that is a user of alcoholic beverages.”
“While there may be liberty, we cannot violate [the admonition in 1 Corinthians 8 that] says our liberty can become a stumbling block. … [T]he use of alcohol as a beverage can and does impede our testimony for the Lord Jesus Christ,” Richards said in support of his amendment. “[O]ur leaders should take the high road in our walk with the Lord Jesus.”
Voicing opposition to the amendment, Tom Ascol, pastor of Grace Baptist Church in Cape Coral, Fla., and executive director of Founders Ministries, a Southern Baptist organization that advocates reformed theology, referred to an New Testament account of Jesus at a wedding as his rationale.
“Christ turned water into wine,” Ascol said.
Speaking against the resolution, Benjamin Cole, pastor of Parkview Baptist Church in Arlington, Texas, said he does not advocate the drinking of alcohol but he feared the convention was in danger of “misstepping” if it adopted “a position that is contrary to what the Bible teaches in the flexibility of the scriptural admonitions as they relate to the consumption of alcoholic beverages.”
Cole’s father died at the age of 39 from a liver disease brought on by alcoholism.
“My father did not die because he drank alcohol; my father died because he drank alcohol in excess,” said Cole, who said as a 13-year-old he cared for his father during the last six months of his life.
In defense of the resolution, committee member Dwayne Mercer, pastor of First Baptist Church in Oviedo, Fla., said while he appreciates “the fact that people become alcoholics because they drink too much alcohol, my parents always taught me, ‘If you don’t take the first drink, you don’t have to worry about taking the last.’”
In opposing the resolution, Jeff Young, pastor of Corinth Baptist Church in Ravenna, Texas, said the older members of the SBC had won the battle to proclaim the Bible is “authoritative and sufficient, but when we pass extra-biblical resolutions such as this, we pull the rug out from underneath that teaching.”
"All"? You are not remembering correctly.
Never heard of anyone getting drunk on bread. Never heard of anyone beating his wife, his dog, his child, or killing someone after eating a loaf of bread. Never known anyone to be arrested for public drunkness or making an idiot out of themselves after eating a few slices of bread. Never seen any Scripture that admonishes man to "not even look at bread," however, the Bible does say that men should not even "look at the wine when it's red." Now if God has advised me to not not even look at it, I doubt if He approves of me drinking it.
Sounds like you are doing exactly what you accuse others of doing with your wording of this sentence.
Moreover, the stuff killed my father and I grew up without him. Having a drink is not a sin, but there is no chance for alcoholism if the first drink is never taken. Therefore, I choose not to. Your claim that I'm a bad witness because I don't drink alcholic beverages is a stupid and outrageous thing to say.
Let me ask you this one buddy:
Besides preaching at people, what have you done for your fellow mankind lately?
Worked in a soup kitchen lately? Cleaned some old shut in person's yard out, mowed and pulled weeds?
I know your kind, and I don't buy it.
You are an ex drunk. That doesn't mean everybody who has a glass of wine is YOU.Quit trying to crucify someone who has a drink.
And while you are at it, what do you plan to do today for SOMEONE ELSE?
I remember what my mother told me, all things in moderation. I don't need someone to tell me that now because I use my common sense and it tells me this is true. I didn't say I was quoting the Bible, did I? Nope, I didn't, but you had to jump in there with a smarmy comment anyway, right? Gotta love a**holes like you!
For one thing, I head up a group of Alcoholic's Victorious every Thursday evening. I have ministered to many and am able to show great patience, concern, and able to love those who are bound by such evil addictions. I've seen and experience first hand the pain and hell such people go through. I've also led many such people to Christ!
The "good wine" Jesus made at Cana (John 2:10) was "good" not because of its high alcoholic content, but because it was fresh, unfermented grape juice. This is indicated by external and internal considerations. Externally, contemporary authors, such as Pliny and Plutarch, attest that "good wines" were those which did not intoxicate, having had their alcoholic potency removed. Internally, moral consistency demands that Christ could not have miraculously produced between 120 to 160 gallons of intoxicating wine for the use of men, women and children gathered at the Cana’s wedding feast, without becoming morally responsible for prolonging and increasing their intoxication. Scriptural and moral consistency requires that "the good wine" produced by Christ was fresh, unfermented grape juice. This is supported by the very adjective used to describe it, namely kalos, which denotes that which is morally excellent, instead of agathos, which means simply good.
Where did you get the idea that I am ready to crucify anyone who takes a drink? Seems to me you are jumping to conclusions and reading the "hearts of men." I'm simply saying that Christians should abstain from the use of alcohol and there is plenty of Scriptural evidence to support it for those who study "to show themselves approved."
II. The Meaning of Wine and Other Biblical Words
A. Another assumption of modernists is that the word "wine" inherently means the fermented or alcoholic juice of the grape. In any language, the meanings of words tend to change through the centuries as people use them to mean something they did not mean before. This is referred to as the usage meaning of a word. In the English language, the word "wine" originally was used to denote the juice of grapes, whether in a fermented or unfermented state. Long ago, of course, that word has taken on the usage meaning of only grape juice in its fermented state. That's why today we distinguish the two drinks by using the terms "wine" and "grape juice." What has happened,even among professed Christians, is that many have assumed that the Hebrew and Greek words translated as "wine" must have the same meaning that the modern usage meaning of the English word "wine" does. Thus, it is assumedthat whenever the Bible speaks of wine or strong drink it must be referring to an alcoholic beverage. And because there are a number of Bible texts which speak positively of the use of these drinks, people assume that the Scriptures do not condemn the use of alcoholic beverages but just the abuse of them. Complicating this picture is the unfortunate fact that many Biblical scholars and lexical authorities have made the same assumptions and have been sloppy in their research as to the linguistics and historical usage meanings of the key words necessary to understand this subject accurately and honestly. Under this section, linguistic and historical evidence is presented on all the original language words used in the Bible with which there is controversy about their meanings. And for the two most commonly used original words, evidence will be presented concerning their usage in Scripture.
B. "Yayin." This is the most common Hebrew word used inthe Old Testament to denote wine, as it appears 141 times. According to several authorities, including Jewish and ancient Christian authors, "yayin" is a generic word for wine that can refer to grape juice in either itsfermented or unfermented state (just like the original meaning of the English word "wine").
C. "Oinos." This is the most common Greek word used in the New Testament to denote wine, appearing 32 times. According to several authorities, "oinos" is also a generic word for wine that can refer to grape juice in either its fermented or unfermented state.
D. Although "yayin" and "oinos" are easily the most commonly used words in the Bible to denote wine, there are a few other words which are controversially interpreted. A brief summary of information follows:
1. "Shakar." This Hebrew word appears 23 times in the Old Testament.It is usually translated in the King James Version as "strong drink," butthe word is a common root in many different languages for the word "sugar."It was a sweet drink made from non-grape sources--either dates, other fruits,or even grains mixed with honey.(10) Sinceit contained a great deal of sugar, a "shakar" could ferment (since yeast"eats" sugar). At the same time, it could have been kept from fermenting,just as grape juice was often preserved. Almost all Biblical referencesto "shakar," however, are negative ones.
2. "Chemer" (or "Khemer"). This Hebrew word appears just 9 timesin the Old Testament. It is usually translated as "wine" (or "red wine;""pure"). It is from a root which means "to boil up." Thus, it may referto the foaming appearance of grape juice during fermentation or to thefoam of newly pressed grape juice.(11)In three of its nine appearances "chemer" is spoken of approvingly.(12)
3. "Tirosh." This Hebrew word appears 38 times in the Old Testament.It is translated by the King James Version as wine 26 times, as new wine11 times, and as sweet wine one time.(13)The precise meaning of the word is in question, with some authorities sayingit refers to the solid fruit (the grape itself), others to fresh grapejuice, and still other authorities maintain that "tirosh" can even sometimesrefer to fermented wine.(14) Actually,the word is obviously used in a generic sense because sometimes the Biblicalreference is to solid fruit (as in Micah 6:15) and sometimes it is definitelyto fresh grape juice (as in Isaiah 65:8). The use of words by ancient peoplesto refer to several things was not unusual. However, the position that"tirosh" can also refer to fermented grape juice is dependent upon a specificinterpretation of one single text--Hosea 4:11.
"Gleukos." Nearly all authorities agree that this Greek word,which occurs only once in the New Testament (Acts 2:13), means sweet, fresh grape juice. That a few scholars attemptto see its use in Acts 2:13 as a reference to newly fermented wine is notwarranted. In Job 32:19, the LXX translates "yayin" with the word "gleukos." The context there makes "yayin" refer to fermented wine. Either the LXX mistranslated "yayin" in that text, or perhaps "gleukos" did not yet have the exclusive meaning of fresh grape juice during the intertestamental period, when the LXX was translated. In any case, the Jewish historian Josephus is quite emphatic that "gleukos" referred only to fresh grape juice
You have said "true men of God" will denounce the use of alcohol. Pope John Paul II did not once denounce the use of alcohol. Are you going to say that he was not a "true man of God"?
Quite frankly, it's difficult for me to believe that any Pope has ever been a "true man of God."
I'll drink to that.
Yep, that's a Southern Baptist, all right.
Apparently Jesus himself would not pass muster with the SBC on this issue. He himself says that he came eating and drinking, if it wasn't wine that he was drinking why would he not have said that his enemies were lying about it?
I believe drinking to drunkenness or taking drugs for recreational use is sinful, and in fact there are several passages of scripture that say it is. I think that any Christian who drinks alcohol with the intention of getting drunk, or takes drugs just to get high, is definitely sinning. But IMHO having a beer or a glass of wine in moderation as a beverage is no more a sin than taking a prescription narcotic drug for a medical condition would be.
My dear old Methodist teetotaler grandmother would not even take patent medicines that contained alcohol, which was most of them in that day. I was careful not to ever let her know that I could and often did enjoy a cold bottle of Lowenbrau on a hot day. Not because I thought it was a sin, I just respected her belief on the matter and didn't want to offend her.
"Your claim that I'm a bad witness because I don't drink alcholic beverages is a stupid and outrageous thing to say."
I think your personal situation caused you to misread the post (which I agree was not artful). It was a reference to an entire group of people, in general, not a specific person(s) (such as yourself) who have legitimate reasons to avoid alcohol.
"I think you would be legally defined as "under the influence."
No, that BAC of .08%. It takes like 5 drinks in a hour for me to reach that, which I don't think I've done since college. (I'm a big guy, a shade closer to 7 feet tall than 6.)
LOL.
Brush up on your understanding of kosher foods before making that kind of post.
"We had a pastor who maintained that wine in the 1st century Middle East was diluted 20 to 1."
Those people forget that Jesus was a Jew.
"Why would God create rotten juice from water?"
I guess you mean "femented." Same reason he created bread,
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