Documents: Al-Qaida sought U.S.-Iran war

AP on Yahoo ^ | 6/15/06 | Sameer N. Yacoub - ap

[Question Liberal Authority]

Rummy's notions on war are great for conventional wars, they are moronic for policing countries.

The Iraqi people are the ones who should be policing their country. Iraqis replace coalition soldiers as the Iraqis are trained. Eventually, there will be no need for the US to police Iraq at all.

[Paul Ross]

Bump.

[jmc1969]

We had an Iraqi Army and police force that General Abazaid origionally intended to retrain and use to police the country. Bremer and Wolfawitz disbanded them on the advice of Chalabi.

[kenavi]

jmc1969, what is your model of a successful occupation of a country against a counter-insurgency in modern times (post WW-II)?

There is the example of the British in Malaysia, I don't believe this was achieved with a large occupying force.

In Vietnam, we defeated the insurgency as we drew down troops and the South Vietnamese took over.

In addition, when it comes to Rumsfeld, we are talking about a man who has long challenged diplomatic niceties, achieved success in business as well as gov't, has no further political ambitions to sway his reason, and asks the tough questions of his own policies. I would therefore credit that he has looked at a whole raft of implications of small force vs large force.

[ChadGore]

The "Tyranny Of Distance" is very real, and Rummy was correct.

The number of Americans killed by the Iraq Army in the past 3 years combined is 0, nadda, zippo.

Say what you want about the insurgency, but Saddam's Iraq Army has been defeated.

[ChadGore]

Having our troops in Afghanistan, Iran's eastern front, and in Iraq, Iran's western front has very important leverage that has yet to be realized.

[PsyOp]

Seems to me that Iran's current president is doing a pretty good job of that all by himself.

[jmc1969]

Saddam's Army was defeated in April 2003 and was begging US commanders in May 2003 to be allowed to be rehired.

Blair himself has admitted we screwed and every commander in the Army will tell you that.

When you have a hard core conservative like Ben Stine saying today that he loves president Bush, but Rummy just doesn't know how to police a country you know there is something wrong.

You can't tell me that Rummy was right in early 2004 to try to force the number of US troops under 100,00.

[jmc1969]

100,000

[MikefromOhio]

You can't tell me that Rummy was right in early 2004 to try to force the number of US troops under 100,00.

Being that I was there in early 2004, virtually NO ONE anticipated how organized Al Qaeda became in Iraq. It was very very quickly from a nuisance to a full-brown terrorist insurgency.

[jmc1969]

Blair himself has admitted we screwed up.

---

Actually he didn't say disbanding the Iraqi Army persay was a mistake, he said how we dealt with Saddam's Baath party was the biggest mistake.

[jmc1969]

100,000 troops is just about enough to police the capital of Iraq alone and nowhere near enough to police even 1/2 the country. Even if al-Qaeda in Iraq didn't show up you still would have the massive growth of criminal gangs which would have quickly turned into militias as the Madhi Army did.

Think about it this way, what happened was similar to what would happen if the police force in NY City was disbanded overnight and a foreign police force 1/3rd as big that didn't know the area, the language, or the people was sent in to police NY.

What would happen would be gangs would quickly develop in parts of NY City and turn into militia like super gangs which would basically take over parts of the city and war with each other over parts of the city.

Even without any help from Iran or foreign jihadists major problems with violence were inevitable given the lack of security forces in Iraq which created a massive security vacuum.

[MikefromOhio]

100,000 troops is just about enough to police the capital of Iraq alone and nowhere near enough to police even 1/2 the country.

that's about where I stopped. That's a simply HILARIOUS assumption on your part. Leave the military decisions to the military and just stop ok?

[Republican Wildcat]

The document said the insurgency was being hurt by, among other things, the U.S. military's program to train Iraqi security forces, by massive arrests and seizures of weapons, by tightening the militants' financial outlets, and by creating divisions within its ranks.

In other words, our strategy is and was working.

[Republican Wildcat]

Maybe, maybe not. It is all speculation in hindsight...but the removal of some problems could lead to others if that particular treck had been taken. We'll never know one way or the other.

[jmc1969]

Nouri Badran the interim Minister of Interior under Prime Minister Allawi said 100,000 police and military forces was the end goal for Baghdad.

[ladyinred]

In other words, in spite of the doom and gloom we hear from the media, we are winning the war in Iraq! Who knew??? :-) The foreign enemy knew! The domestic enemy was lying as usual.

[MikefromOhio]

Nouri Badran the interim Minister of Interior under Prime Minister Allawi said 100,000 police and military forces was the end goal for Baghdad.

Yes US and Iraqi combined, with increasing emphasis on IRAQI. Baghdad isn't that big. 100,000 of our guys would be a bad idea, especially since most of our issues were south and west of Baghdad itself. Don't try this path, you'll lose.

[jmc1969]

We allowed the Madhi Army to slowly take over security and checkpoints for Sadr City, because they weren't fighting US at least until mid 2004 and they were providing security in a area were there was no significant government security forces.

You need a certain number of security forces per person to prevent gangs and organized crime from taking root. Zarqawi was basically and organized crimial on steroids who had access to weapons, money, and explosives.

How many security forces today are in Baghdad if you include Iraqi police, Iraqi Army, Americans, Badr, and Madhi? I would bet that would be around 100,000 or more. Was Allawi's Interior Minister right that 100,000 policing forces were need for Baghdad? Maybe. It could be that less would be needed if not for the Middle Eastern problem with corruption and if the insurgency wasn't already a problem.

What I do know is you need a certain number of policing forces per person to maintain order or you have problems no matter if you are talking about Chicago, NY City, or Iraq.

[elfman2]

"So, since Iran's "president" keeps ratcheting up the rhetoric almost trying to start a war, in keeping with what is written in this document, it is safe to conclude that he has direct ties to al qaida, no? "

It’s safe to conclude he likes his face in the news and oil at $70 a barrel.