Posted on 06/14/2006 4:12:23 AM PDT by Man50D
Illegal immigration is an unsolvable problem. America should surrender now to the irresistible will of the leaderless gaggle of semi-literate busboys and landscapers who stumble northward with the unbeatable plan of that way! in their diabolical minds. Who can stop these master criminals? Not the poor little U.S. government!
With its limited resources and power, how can it do something as complex as watch to see if a confused mob of aspiring roofers walks across a line in the desert? Or enforce laws against hiring illegal aliens? Or most intimidating of all, how can it find illegal aliens already within America?
After all, they are so well hidden, standing there on the corner of McGrath and Broadway in Somerville, Mass., every morning from sunrise to lunch, waiting to be picked up by anonymous labor johns. Really, how does one capture people so cautious that they jump into the back of any truck that pulls up? I mean, this isnt something easy like going to the moon or establishing Democracy in all the world.
Ive often heard that you have to have a will to succeed, if you want to win. But in the case of the open borders lobby that has held sway over our immigration and borders policies for the last 30 years, all they need to win is a will to fail.
It is now national policy to fail to guard borders, to fail to prosecute those who bear forged documents, to fail to arrest illegal aliens even when found. It is our governments policy to fail to notice the illegal labor pools operating openly in every major city in America. It is doctrine to fail to deport illegal aliens even when they are arrested for other crimes, and to fail to investigate corporations openly claiming they cannot function without illegal labor. It is protocol to fail to notice when temporary visa holders never leave, and to fail to pursue court decisions against cities that actively provide sanctuary for immigration criminals.
Never has a fringe political movement succeeded so well by failure, as the open borders wing of our bipartisan ruling class has by its willful sabotage of our nations immigrations and customs enforcement apparatus. Now the feigned incompetence and willful neglect that have been used to achieve a de facto opening of borders is being used as a major argument in favor of passing the Bush/McCain/Kennedy/Reid amnesty for illegal aliensa formal opening of the borders.
Everyday we hear the whine of the willing failures in Washington, D.C: Its just so hard Cant we just give up and start over? ... We tried to guard the borders but theyre soooooo big. There are so many people to keep track of and its just not reasonable to try. Its crazy to deport people back to where they actually are supposed to be so we win, ha, ha, give us open borders like we wanted all along.
By contrast, if you want to see what our federal government is capable of when it stands to benefit from law enforcement, just look at our tax system. The modern tax code is a Byzantine obscenity. Its too large to be understood by any one person. Armies of lawyers, accountants, and computer programmers are needed just to figure what each individual owes.
Every paycheck in America is tracked. Every corporation monitored. Every home sale and stock trade and bank account in a country of 300 million people is watched for potential taxation. Employers are used as the primary collection and enforcement apparatus in the system, which understands well that a corporation that fears huge fines for small errors will obey the law carefully. Saving a few bucks just isnt worth it, if you get the IRS on your back.
For many people, the Internal Revenue Service is the most feared law enforcement agency in the country. At the state, county, and city level, nearly every house, trailer, boat, car, truck, RV, and motorcycle in the nation is tracked year to year, assessed, taxed and monitored with rigorous enforcement by every clerk and traffic cop possible. Likewise, nearly every gas station, shopping mall, fruit stand, restaurant and bar in America is expected to collect sales tax on every stick of gum or pair of panties it ever sold.
This the government can do. But it cant find the illegal aliens on the street corner or shut down the makers of fake green cards or prosecute the same businesses it expects to obey a million different tax laws when they knowingly hire a subcontractor to provide them with laundered illegal labor.
Clearly, if you want a law enforced by our government, you should make it a tax law.
Which brings me to one of the more interesting possibilities in the popular rebellion against the anti-nationalists in the Democratic and Republican leaderships (those who seek to totally open our borders and thus eliminate our nation as anything other than a free-enterprise zone for the worlds excess poor and their would-be employers): What if advocates of secure borders and controlled immigration sought to entangle immigration and border enforcement with tax enforcement?
This could be done by throwing our weight behind the Fair Tax tax reform movement that is already gaining steam throughout America. Allow me to explain.
For those of you that dont know, the Fair Tax movement seeks to replace the maze of current personal income, capital gains, corporate, gasoline, and payroll taxes that the federal government has thrown up over time with a single, fair consumption tax. Every person in America would take home their entire paycheck, and pay only this one tax, which could thus be easily monitored by voters. Likewise, every business would be subject to it and freed from having to hire a flock of lawyers to figure out their tax burden each year. The IRS would be abolished.
The Fair Tax is a consumption taxa sales taxit would be automatically calculated and collected every time you or any other person or business bought any item at the retail level. No more W-2s or 1040s or schedules B, or IRS audits or multiplying the greater of either line 32 or 34a by the amount from the appropriate box on the table on page 92. When you buy, you pay.
The tax has an enormous number of economic advantages that have been extensively analyzed by many economists and would spur growth, discourage corporations from moving offshore, and reward savings. These are too numerous and lengthy to detail here, but I encourage you to learn more by reading the Fair Tax Book.
The Fair Tax would neither raise nor lower your taxes, it would simply change the way they are collectedand that is how it might have an unintended effect on border security. When taxes are collected on retail sales, instead of income, the easiest way to avoid paying them is to try to buy your goods across a border, in a jurisdiction without the sales tax. This pattern is very familiar within America.
Just across the border from states with high gasoline taxes are clusters of gas stations. Just out of the reach of states with onerous liquor taxes are clusters of liquor stores. The southern portion of sales tax-free New Hampshire is one great cluster of malls and stores catering to shoppers from high-tax Massachusetts. States are prohibited from interfering with such activity under the interstate commerce clause of the Constitution. They really are powerless to enforce their borders (and properly so).
But imagine if Northern Mexico and Southern Canada became giant outlet malls catering to frugal shoppers from a Fair Tax America. How seriously do you think the federal government would become about inspecting every car and closing every isolated crossing point? If it were taxes sneaking across our borders, instead of illegal aliens, the government would have the Marines mining the fronteir with Quebec. Somebody sneaking in to take a job away from an American doesnt bother Washington at all. But can you imagine the outrage and panic if that same person were sneaking in to try to sell Americans tax-free iPods?
The impossible-to-patrol border would suddenly become very, very patrolled. Or the government could choose to just forego all those taxes and get smaller and smaller. Which do you think would happen?
Now, the Fair Tax is worth implementing for other reasons, and would also discourage illegal immigration by fully taxing the underground economy for the first time (unlike an income tax, which is easily avoided by those who work off-the-books). But wouldnt it be nice to have a byproduct of our tax system be secure, well ordered borders, adequately staffed and patrolled?
This year the Fair Tax bill (HR 25) has an impressive 57 co-sponsors in Congress and it gains support every year. The added support of millions of Americans opposed to open borders could push the bill into the realm of real possibility.
Most of life is the result of unintended consequences, and every once in a while they can actually work for you.
Take your verbal camel dung and stuff it.
And how does any of those refute the Congressional Research Papers, or even show that Forbes Flat Tax is not just another variant of the Hall Rebushuka Flat Tax.
I have seen all of the information you point to, not one establishes the Forbes Flat Tax from being anything other than a variation of the rest, all of which have their genesis in the Hall/Rebushka flat tax.
Sorry, for all your effort all you have show is there is a bunch of links that claim the Flat Tax to be a consumption tax, same as CRS, claim personal exemptions for individual wages (making it progressive wage tax) same as the CRS paper, and provides for taxing business on the Hall Rebushka model, i.e. a subtraction method VAT just as the CRS paper points out.
The point being, you show nothing that has not been amply claimed in this thread with the Congressional Research Service's summary of the Flat Tax proposals before Congress today.
Sorry, you apparently went to alot of effort to do nothing more than claim what is already established here. The Flat Tax is a faux "consumption tax", that is merely ontop the SS/Medicare taxes in place and tax businesses with a the subtraction method VAT model to claim to be a consumption tax.
World experience tells quite a different story, but again, because "you and yours" have wrapped yourselves in the "infallibility of victimhood" at the hands of the evil IRS; you honestly believe your spammage to be coming from God's lips to your skillful fingers, and everyone should just bow to your vast and powerful pronouncements.
Horsehockey, plain and simple.
Better - and more honest - than Camelhockey, I'd say!
![]() January 5, 2006A Flat-Out Winner for Tax ReformThe flat tax is supports higher growth in Eastern Europe.By: Daniel J. Mitchell, Heritage FoundationThis op-ed originally appeared in The Washington Post on Thursday, December 22, 2005 1775 Pennsylvania Avenue NW, 11th Floor, Washington, DC 20006-5805 Phone: (202) 783-3870 Fax: (202) 232-8356 Toll Free: 1-888-564-6273 www.freedomworks.org E-mail: cse@cse.org © 1996-2004 FreedomWorks. Online Privacy Policy |
Sure enough .... Camelhockey as predicted.
What he, unfortunately, misses is that ANY flat tax is an income-based tax and suffers from that (and many other deficiencies) as shown in this post.
Oh, and by the way, none of the countries using it are socialist, or at least not since the Berlin wall fell.
Oh, and they are without exception, the fastest growing economies in the world.
Oh, and the populations gladly pay their taxes when asked.
Oh, and their compliance costs are .006% of revenues.
Oh, and the number one socialist, and convicted felon, and prime democrat and leftist fundraiser, George Soros, thinks the fairtax is a "wonderful idea"
Oh, and Hugo Chavez loves it sooo much, It's what they're doing, along with Evo Morales.
Every single link brings into doubt the "anointed pronouncement" that FT is the do-all end-all of taxation.
ROTFLMAO
Of course the Flat Tax (FT) is not the do-all end-all of taxation. If you like VATs, progressive wage taxes, and faux consumption taxe, high adminitrative burden tax system your going to love the Flat Tax (FT) and general income taxes.
Of course the Fair Tax (NRST) is not the do-all end-all of taxation. If you want to see what your paying for government, want an above board actual consumption tax instead of a back-door-crypto consumption tax with the states the folks adminitrating the tax system instead of the Feds and their everyloving IRS. You will love the the NRST as implemented in the FairTax legislation.
All depends whether you want your government and its costs handed to you as a pig-in-the-poke Flat VAT Income Tax or an above board, everyone sees it, National Retail Sales Tax/
World experience tells quite a different story
World experience tells us we started with essentially the Flat Tax back in 1913, guess what it grew up to be. The current Income/Payroll tax system with 60,000 pages of gobbledegook that knowone can decipher and everyone is subject to regardless of the fact that no to tax preparers can come up with the same answer for anything beyond a bare-bones set of circumstances.
Horsehockey, plain and simple
Horsehocky indeed, where any income tax or VAT system come in to play. Both have one end and one end only the perpetuation of power in a small group of elites, nothing more and nothing less.
The EU & Russia is repleat with Flat Tax/VAT examplesthey effect economies and are used for the social/political machinations of which even Machiavelli would stand in awe of.
In 1913 Blacks couldn't marry whites - we fixed that
in 1913 women couldn't vote - we fixed that.
in neither case did we throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Indeed, in 1912 we had consumtion taxes predominately in the form of tariffs and excises many of which were collected at retail sale.
In 1913 we started a flat tax, and certainly threw out the baby and bathwater both by dumping the taxation of consumption in favor of taxing income to specifically "tax the rich" in the parlance of that day.
The only way flat tax at that time was sold was its personal exemption, still with us in the same forms today. To assure soaking the rich.
We all know the history of the 1913 flat tax and the monster it rapidly became in this country and the every growing power of government and socialization of our institutions.
Those that do not pay attention to history, are doomed to repeat it.
Those who do not advance in history are doomed to end up like muslims.
Those who do not advance in history are doomed to end up like muslims.
Exactly. We had a Flat Income Tax in 1913, which replaced tariffs and excise consumption taxes.
We now have a moribund income/payroll tax system that would be the envy of Machiavelli for its capacity for the control citizens, social engineering and political manipulation.
It is time to end end the "progressive" farce and return to a taxsystem that is designed to empower the citizen's options over government's capacity for suppression. A tax system designed for the convenience of the American people:
Patrick Henry, Virginia Ratifying Convention June 12, 1788:
- "the oppression arising from taxation, is not from the amount but, from the mode -- a thorough acquaintance with the condition of the people, is necessary to a just distribution of taxes. The whole wisdom of the science of Government, with respect to taxation, consists in selecting the mode of collection which will best accommodate to the convenience of the people."
not the empowerment of yet more government.
"Imposts, excises, and, in general, all duties upon articles of consumption, may be compared to a fluid, which will, in time, find its level with the means of paying them. The amount to be contributed by each citizen will in a degree be at his own option, and can be regulated by an attention to his resources. The rich may be extravagant, the poor can be frugal; and private oppression may always be avoided by a judicious selection of objects proper for such impositions. "
"It is a signal advantage of taxes on articles of consumption that they contain in their own nature a security against excess.
They prescribe their own limit, which cannot be exceeded without defeating the end proposed - that is, an extension of the revenue."
When applied to this object, the saying is as just as it is witty that, "in political arithmetic, two and two do not always make four."
If duties are too high, they lessen the consumption; the collection is eluded; and the product to the treasury is not so great as when they are confined within proper and moderate bounds.
This forms a complete barrier against any material oppression of the citizens by taxes of this class, and is itself a natural limitation of the power of imposing them.
You can take your Flat Income Tax, and related VATs to Europe where they surely appreciate them.
But it's not 1913 anymore --- and the baby has outgrown his britches so you couldn't throw him out if you tried.
It would be nice to begin to bring him under control via the FairTax though.
Sounds like a good use for all those IRS gestapo who would be idled by the FairTax.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.