Marine lawyer calls Haditha `tragic' but lawful

The lawyer for a Marine being investigated in the deaths of two dozen civilians in Haditha, Iraq, described the event as "tragic," but denied innocent people were killed intentionally and said troops followed military rules of engagement.

No one has been charged in the Haditha case, which centers on allegations that a small number of Marines from Camp Pendleton's 3rd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment killed 24 Iraqi civilians, including unarmed women and children, on Nov. 19 after a roadside bomb killed a fellow Marine.

Lawyer Neal A. Puckett said Sunday that Staff Sgt. Frank D. Wuterich, 26, told him several civilians were killed after the bombing when his squad pursued insurgents firing at them from inside a house.

Puckett quoted the sergeant as describing a house-to-house search that went wrong and resulted in unintended civilian deaths. Wuterich denied allegations of an intentional massacre, Puckett said.

"(It was) certainly a tragic result and (Wuterich) understands that it's tragic and he feels extremely badly about the fact that innocent civilians were killed," Puckett told The Associated Press in a telephone interview from Alexandria, Va. "But he was following what he understood to be the rules of engagement and standard protocol."

An investigation has been examining whether Marines tried to cover up the shootings and whether commanders were negligent in failing to investigate the deaths when they were reported.

Wuterich's version of events differs from some accounts of Haditha residents. They have said that innocent civilians were executed, including some who pleaded for their lives.

According to Puckett, it was a short time after Wuterich's four-vehicle convoy left on a routine mission on the morning of Nov. 19 that a roadside bomb tore into the last Humvee, killing the driver and injuring the front-seat passenger and a Marine in the back.

Wuterich told his lawyer that as he was attending to those in the Humvee, he saw a car carrying five "military-aged" males. When the occupants were ordered to stop, they tried to flee. The Marines shot the men, killing at least four of them.

Wuterich also told Puckett that after the confrontation, Marines began to draw gunfire from a nearby house. A four-man squad, including Wuterich, burst into the building to pursue the shooter. In the house, the Marines found a room with a closed door and heard "rustling sounds" coming from behind it.

Because they had taken machine-gun fire, the Marines cleared the room in the way they had been trained.

"Everything happened very fast," Puckett said. "There's no preparation, there's no deliberation involved, it's just a quick reaction time, shooting and neutralizing any threat that might be in there. And in these cases it turns out after the fact that there weren't threats in that room."

After failing to find any insurgents in the house, Puckett said Wuterich noticed a back door had been left open. Wuterich believed insurgents had escaped to a neighboring house. They burst into a second home, again using fragmentation grenades and gunfire.

Puckett said Wuterich knew civilians had been killed and reported this to his superiors both over the radio and in person.

Later that day, Marines entered a third house after seeing a man acting suspiciously. Puckett said the troops approached a room that had four men in it. A Marine shot and killed all four after seeing a man holding an AK-47, Puckett said.

The Washington Post, the first to speak with Puckett about Wuterich, reported that lawyers for two other Marines involved in the incident said Wuterich's account was consistent with what their clients have told them.

Puckett said it was possible none of the Marines would be charged with murder and instead some commanders could be charged with dereliction of duty for failing to properly investigate the incident at the time.

He added Wuterich remained at Camp Pendleton and had been promoted to staff sergeant since the incident.

"Will Murtha retract his comments? Anyone think he will even care?"

I doubt that he will. His tecord is too long and too tragic, and he's got many, many defiiciencies, including a total lack of any basic logical reasoning ability.

If you've ever been in the military, you'll know that is no hinderance to completing a career. I state that as an old used up fart who tears up when I hear of our patriot warriors' sacrifices. But this guy is a useless BOZO who's type I've had to deal with many time both in the military and out. He is a warped human being.

As I said, I doubt he will ever come around (though I wish to God he would or could) and I'll say no more.

"Why should you call it either? Just call it what it really is: War."

Because he's trying to defend the lives of his clients who have been thrown to the wolves by every one from President Bush on down the line. Though it is likely these brave U.S. Marines did absolutely nothing but fight bravely against barbaric terrorists, the Marine Corps has already been ordered by Bush to institute a new program of "sensitivity in combat" training for all members of the Corps. In other words, the government is assuming that 'atrocities' did occur at Haditha, hence the Marine Corps are taking steps to see that it doesn't happen "again".

The whole thing stinks to the high heavens, my heart and prayers go out to these brave men who have placed their own lives on the line to protect me and my fellow Americans from having to fight these bastards on our own soil. All these constant, assinine, high profile investigations of our own troops is surely doing severe harm to recruitment.

"Seems premature to make a legal arguement when nobody's been charged, yet."

Oh they've been charged alright, charged in the media and left to hang out to dry by our government so far. That's why you, I, and everyone else knows every detail of the case AGAINST our troops at this point, but no one has heard anything in their defense, so I'm glad this defense attorney is speaking out now.

These poor men are being shredded in the news and the politicians, from Bush right accross the board, have held the position so far that they are concerned the Marines may be guilty, and all this before a charge is even filed, as you said.

This is how the government has (mis) handled the allegations:

President Bush said on May 30th that he was "troubled" by the allegations. He said: "If in fact laws were broken, there will be punishment." When in fact he should have declined to say ANYTHING while the investigation is ongoing.

Then, referring to General Pace, Commander of the USMC, Bush said: "He's a proud Marine. And nobody is more concerned about these allegations than the Marine Corps. The Marine Corps is full of honorable people who understand the rules of war-----If in fact these allegations are true---the Marine Corps will work hard to make sure that that culture, that proud culture, will be reinforced. And that those who violated the law, if they did, will be punished."

Incredibly, even before any charges have been filed, the President has already ordered the Marine Corps to start a 'sensitivity' training program for all Marines, which strongly indicates his belief that the atrocities occurred and they need to be prevented in the future.

President Bush went on to say: "I am troubled by the initial news stories----I'm mindful that there's a thorough investigation going on. If in fact, laws were broken, there will be punishment."

Again, the proper thing for the President of the United States to do is to refuse comment until AFTER the investigations are completed, otherwise he shows the world he himself has at least some doubts about the Marines' innocense. Bush is saying exactly what his PC advisors are telling him to say, instead of giving the Marines full benefit of the doubt until such time as they are convicted.

"Another disappointment from W. Why does he do these things?"

Because, contrary to what many conservatives like to believe, this President is weak, and I mean WEAK. He's doing everything according to what his political advisors tell him to do and say, and nothing according to what a strong, intelligent, independent minded man would do and say. When the arrogant, tough talking Bush shoots from the hip he always gets himself in trouble, such as calling his base "vigilantes", and inferring they are racist bigots after the UAE ports debacle.

What Bush really is, is a pampered, well heeled wussy, a cheer leader from Andover Academy who's completely insulated from the lives of average Americans. He doesn't know who or what we are all about, and he's totally insulated from the cultural/economic fallout of allowing 20 million illegal aliens have amnesty. He is every bit as insulated from the trials and troubles of 'Joe Sixpack' as are Ted Kennedy and John Kerry.

Bush may not be the worst President we've ever had, and he may not be a 'bad' soul, but he sure as shiite is a weak man, as are all moderates. Thank the Lord he has surrounded himself with at least a few strong men, like Rumsfeld. But even Rumsfeld has been reigned in, and the likes of the lovely little lady Condi Rice has been given more authority.

Weakness will be Bush's legacy; that and a long, drawn-out war in Iraq that could have ended in 18 months if they had forseen a powerful insurgency and had used a FULL compliment of troops right from the start, (as Colin Powell and others urged). Another 150,000 boots on the ground from day one would have crushed that insurgency before it could even take a foothold. We are stretched thin in Iraq; as it is now 40% of our troops there are Reserves. We have had to resort to sending our guys there for three tours sometimes, like we had to do in WWII, and this ain't hardly WWII.

Ronald Reagan he ain't. In fact, Harry Truman he aint. I put "W" in the category of his wishy-washy dad, with perhaps a little more spine but with a little less brains too. "W" is a sort of stronger, somewhat more conservative version of Jimmy Carter, and that's about all.

I feel for you, but I can't quite reach you.

I just keep thinking how MUCH BETTER OFF we are now than we were ten years ago during the Stainmeister's reign of error. These days are much brighter than those. And you gotta remember, that lip-biting, weaselly, lying, wanker b@$t@rd (and some say 'rapist') kicked the can down the road and W is now dealing with it.

And I invite you to ask ANYONE who was active duty then and now what a difference there is. (e.g., the Marine One crew faces and salutes this CinC)

But you're right, W's not perfect.

"I just keep thinking how MUCH BETTER OFF we are now than we were ten years ago during the Stainmeister's reign of error. These days are much brighter than those."

It's not productive to compare any President with Bubba Clinton, the filthiest, crookedest man to ever sit in the Oval Office. If we continue to compare our sitting Presidents with Bill Clinton, then every future President of mediocrity, every spineless moderate with some sense of morals will look good to us.

Clinton's days are over, he disgraced America but now he's gone. A new era is here and we placed a lot of hope in President Bush. I once felt that hope too, and I used to defend him vigorously in here in FR. But he has been letting us down relentlessly, ever since he turned his back on Terri Schiavo and decided to let her die without a fight. He has been going downhill ever since. "Portgate" with the UAE, illegal immigration, name calling against his own base, fighting the Iraq War completely wrong, with too few troops and far too many 'rules-of-engagement' constraints, sending our weary guys there for three tours, depending heavily on the Reserves and doing Shiite about a nuclear building Iran who are spitting in our faces every day with taunts and threatening our allies with destruction.

Kim il Jong is threatening to go nuclear and he does nothing, at least no yet. Globalism gone wild with CAFTA, NAFTA, outsourcing of jobs to India, massive trade deficits with China, the shameful raiding of the Social Security box to fund everything from the Iraq War to giving illegal aliens welfare benefits to pander for their votes.

The media clobber Bush every day and he never stands up to them because he doesn't have the eloquence and articulate speech to do the job. Gas prices have gone to an all-time high under his watch, and he spends more money than any Democrat in history, including Bill Clinton.

President Bush cares not a whit about the people of this country and our future, his real focus is on globalism, multi-culturalism, political correctness, and on absorbing President Vicente Fox's unemployed, his criminals, drug dealers, mentally ill, rapists, gang members and welfare lay-a-bouts. He has forgiven Africa an 8 billion dollar debt, while simultaneously signing a bill making it harder for AMERICANS to get out of debt. The so-called "Seperation of Church and State" has grown stronger under Bush, and that's just plain horrible. We've seen the Ten Commandments be carried away out of a Courthouse and the good Judge get fired for protecting them. We've seen homosexual 'rights' increase exponentially under the Bush Administration and now they can marry in some states and receive special co-habitation benefits in every state. Only recently did he decide to put up a fruitless, token fight for a Constitutional Amendment against gay marriage. A fight that his own party members told him was fruitless.

So now, you still think you've got a 'conservative' President in the White House? If you wish to respond to this post, push "1" for Espanol, "2" for English, that's the Bush multi-cultural way.

"If we continue to compare our sitting Presidents with Bill Clinton, then every future President of mediocrity, every spineless moderate with some sense of morals will look good to us. Clinton's days are over, he disgraced America but now he's gone."

He ain't 'gone' by a long shot. He's still whoring aroung the MSM, and they're glad to pay the slut for his slack-jawed grins.

By the rest of your rant, I can tell you still keep a signed photo of the Hand Grenade with a Bad Haircut in your wallet, and I wouldn't doubt you agree with Pat B. that we never should have gotten into WWII!!

Let's move on.

So ... what about Newt '08?

the lovely little lady Condi Rice

Who is probably the strongest supporter of the RKBA in the administration, now that Gonzales is the AG. Stronger even than outdoorsman and hunter (and lawyer shooter :) ) Vice President Cheney.

I'm prepared to give folks who don't mind if I'm armed the benefit of the doubt on other issues upon which we might not quite see eye to eye. A politician that doesn't want to grab your guns can at least be reasoned with. Once the gun grabbers have your guns, you can't reason with 'em and when they come for the guns, you might as well shoot 'em. (The folks at Lexington and Concord felt the same. It was gun grabbing that started the Revolution, not just taxation without representation.)

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