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JBT's raid KT Ordnance
JFPO ^

Posted on 06/11/2006 7:17:55 PM PDT by M1928A1 Thompson

June 8, 2006

BATFE RAIDS KT ORDNANCE!

Yesterday we received word that KT Ordnance, manufacturer of incomplete (80%-finished) frames, was raided for the alleged "illegal manufacture of firearms." KT Ordnance has been a great asset to those who wish to purchase unfinished receivers with which to anonymously manufacture their own firearms -- a perfectly legal process, according to the BATFE website ( http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#a6 ).

You can see from photos of the AR-15 kit ( http://www.jpfo.org/kto1.jpg and www.jpfo.org/kto2.jpg) that the product cannot possibly be a functioning "firearm" -- it's simply a chunk of metal! So how can this happen?

Early reports suggest that -- as Len Savage warned us in his "Talkin' to America" interview ( http://www.jpfo.org/tta060508.htm ) -- the BATFE has arbitrarily decided that certain products have the "features and characteristics" of firearms. As can be expected, there exists _no_ definition of exactly what "features and characteristics" are in question at this time.

Other reports indicate that much of KT Ordnance's inventory is being confiscated, and computer hard drives have been duplicated, although the computers themselves remain at KT Ordnance's location.

It appears that certain government agents are indeed getting desperate. Richard Celata, owner of KT Ordnance, has been a long-time supporter of JPFO and a staunch defender of the Second Amendment (see our alert at http://www.jpfo.org/alert20050513.htm ). Did the raid take place because of his association with a Jewish civil rights organization? Was it related to the upcoming UN Conference on small arms ( http://www.jpfo.org/alert20060523.htm )? Or could it be because too many gun owners are discovering that building their own firearms is simple, anonymous, and LEGAL (according to the BATFE's own site -- see above)?

Details on the raid are at this time very, VERY sketchy. We will continue to report on this outrageous, vindictive action by the BATFE as more information comes in. Visitors to the KT Ordnance website will note that the site is no longer online. Richard has informed us that this was to prevent orders from coming in during this time, as there is no way to know what is being monitored or otherwise tracked by BATFE.

JPFO and Gun Owners of America (www.gunowners.org) are working to establish legal defense for KT Ordnance, and will keep you posted on our progress. In the meantime, please spread the word far and wide about this outrageous, indefensible action by the BATFE. Ask questions and _demand answers_ from those in power who claim they are "friends" of gun owners.

We must do what we can to help and support our brothers-in-arms at KT Ordnance.

- The Liberty Crew


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption
KEYWORDS: atf; atfabuse; bang; banglist; batf; donutwatch; jackbootedthugs; jbts; libertarians
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What gives????? Wasn't this kind of stuff supposed to end with the Clintonista's???? Anyone know the rest of the story????
1 posted on 06/11/2006 7:17:56 PM PDT by M1928A1 Thompson
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To: M1928A1 Thompson
I haven't heard anything about this.

That being said I wouldn't put anything past those incompetent boobs at the ATF.

L

2 posted on 06/11/2006 7:19:44 PM PDT by Lurker ("They still see you as the infidel, the other, and they'll still kill you. " Mark Steyn)
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To: Lurker

Good times come, good times go, but Government bureaucrats still keep on justifying their existance.


3 posted on 06/11/2006 7:24:28 PM PDT by donmeaker (Burn the UN flag publicly.)
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To: M1928A1 Thompson

We really have but a few "allies in principle" in any government we are likely to get, more like just some politicians who pander for our votes. This upcoming election may just be the time they try to win without us.
I would love to see the Bush administration sit down hard on crap like this, but they don't seem upset by it. Imagine what will happen under Giuliani.


4 posted on 06/11/2006 7:34:45 PM PDT by SWAMPSNIPER (LET ME DIE ON MY FEET, IN MY SWAMP)
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To: SWAMPSNIPER

Tommy Chong had to do jail time for making glass bongs. What goes around comes around.


5 posted on 06/11/2006 7:42:22 PM PDT by gcruse (http://gcruse.typepad.com)
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To: M1928A1 Thompson

Every store that sells toys has items with the "features and characteristics of firearms". Every store that sells hardware and plumbing has items with the "features and characteristics of firearms". If they get away with this, we're in for it.


6 posted on 06/11/2006 7:46:36 PM PDT by Dumpster Baby ("Hope somebody finds me before the rats do .....")
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To: Joe Brower; Mr. Mojo; DaveLoneRanger; Travis McGee

ping


7 posted on 06/11/2006 7:53:13 PM PDT by freepatriot32 (Holding you head high & voting Libertarian is better then holding your nose and voting republican)
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To: Abram; albertp; AlexandriaDuke; Allosaurs_r_us; Americanwolf; Americanwolfsbrother; Annie03; ...
http://atfabuse.com/

Libertarian ping.To be added or removed from my ping list freepmail me or post a message here

8 posted on 06/11/2006 7:55:38 PM PDT by freepatriot32 (Holding you head high & voting Libertarian is better then holding your nose and voting republican)
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To: freepatriot32

Gosh, imagine how bad the ATF would be if we hadn't elected someone on our side.

/sarcasm drip


9 posted on 06/11/2006 8:56:51 PM PDT by LibertarianInExile ('Is' and 'amnesty' both have clear, plain meanings. Are Bill, McQueeg and the President related?)
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To: M1928A1 Thompson

Same thing that drove the massacre at WACO, BATFE trying to convince congress that they are indispensable!

Recall if you will where BATF was when WACO happened.
1. They were being sued by several female and "Minority" employees for various types of discrimination.
2. Their entrapment of Randy Weaver had not gone well.
3. Congress was considering CUTTING THEIR BUDGET, or perhaps folding them into the FBI!

Now congress is again looking at several bills which might reduce BATFE's smug independence and ability to thumb their noses at the U.S. Constitution in any way they see fit.
It is important to remember that BATFE could not exist if our constitution were being properly adhered to, all "gun control" is an end run around the second amendment.

BATFE always seems to come up with a dramatic "Bust" to show how VERY IMPORTANT they are whenever congress begins to look too closely at exactly what BATFE is really up to.

I also heard of another shop being busted just a couple of days ago, on questionable charges, but do not have sufficient detail to post anything.

Below is a short list of current bills, by no means is it complete.



FEDERAL LEGISLATIVE ROUNDUP

There are a number of pro-gun bills pending in Congress that require your action. Please review these legislative initiatives and be sure to contact your U.S. Representative at (202) 225-3121, and your U.S. Senators at (202) 224-3121, and urge him or her to cosponsor and support these measures. Additional contact information can be found using the "Write Your Representatives" feature at www.NRAILA.org.

. H.R. 5092-This bill would improve BATFE's process for punishing the few FFLs who violate the law and it would establish guidelines for BATFE investigations. This bill was drafted in large part to address recent BATFE abuses at Richmond, Va.-area gun shows highlighted in hearings before the U.S. House Judiciary Committee's Subcommitee on Crime, Terrorism and Homeland Security.

. H.R. 5005-This measure will codify congressional policies, roll back restrictions, and correct errors in federal firearm laws.

. H.R. 5013/S. 2599-Legislation to prohibit the confiscation of lawfully owned firearms during states of emergency. Would guarantee legal recourse for victims of illegal gun seizures

. H.R. 1384-This bill would remove several antiquated and unnecessary restrictions imposed on interstate firearms business since 1968.

. H.R. 1288/S. 1082-Legislation to repeal the draconian D.C. gun ban and restore the right of lawful District residents to own firearms to defend themselves and their families.

. H.R. 4547/S. 3275-Legislation that would allow any person with a valid carry permit or license issued by a state to carry a concealed firearm in any other state if he or she meets certain criteria. Importantly, the laws of each state governing where concealed firearms may be carried would still apply within its borders.

Again, please contact your U.S. Representative and U.S. Senators and urge them to cosponsor and support these measures. For additional information on these bills, please visit www.NRAILA.org.


10 posted on 06/11/2006 9:13:11 PM PDT by Richard-SIA ("The natural progress of things is for government to gain ground and for liberty to yield" JEFFERSON)
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To: Dumpster Baby

I kind of remember that if a company wants to build and sell incomplete receivers, it behooves them to have the design reviewed and approved as a non firing/functional component. The BATF is suppose to send back a letter stating that the gun part is not considered a functional component, thus clearing the company to sell it and not be subject to raids. Did KT Ordnance go thru this process before they sold their "blocks of metal" to the public? It probably is not a libertarian approach but it would provide alot more legal protection against the whims of a bureaucrat and legal expenses.


11 posted on 06/11/2006 10:28:55 PM PDT by Fee (`+Great powers never let minor allies dictate who, where and when they must fight.)
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To: Lurker
That being said I wouldn't put anything past those incompetent boobs at the ATF.

The F Troop really is the bottom of the barrel in Federal law enforcement. I'd have more faith in a park ranger.

-ccm

12 posted on 06/11/2006 11:54:36 PM PDT by ccmay (Too much Law; not enough Order)
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To: gcruse

"Tommy Chong had to do jail time for making glass bongs".



And, this observation has exactly diddly squat to do with anything?
Do you compare legal firearms to illegal bongs?
Just what are you talking about!


13 posted on 06/11/2006 11:55:56 PM PDT by SWAMPSNIPER (LET ME DIE ON MY FEET, IN MY SWAMP)
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To: SWAMPSNIPER

I think he was just pointing out the whimsical nature of our governmental agencies tasked to take care of us.


14 posted on 06/12/2006 12:10:45 AM PDT by Atchafalaya (When you're there, that's the best!!)
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To: M1928A1 Thompson
According to the ATF site, it is legal to make your own firearm but that does not include Class III. If you look at the pictures linked, the lower receiver blanks they are making are clearly designed to be made into an M16/M4 variant, not a semi-auto AR-15:

I don't agree with the raid but the company is clearly playing with fire by placing 'AUTO' selector markings on the outside of the blank.

15 posted on 06/12/2006 12:11:26 AM PDT by killjoy (Same Shirt, Different Day)
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To: killjoy

Uhh, that is our new "auto safety" feature officer.


16 posted on 06/12/2006 12:15:37 AM PDT by Atchafalaya (When you're there, that's the best!!)
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To: killjoy

"clearly designed to be made into an M16/M4 variant, not a semi-auto AR-15"

Not really.

An M-16 (full auto) sear requires additional milling to the inside of the lower receiver and the exact placement of an additional hole.

The pictured lowers have all the normal AR-15 (semi-auto) holes started, there is nothing to indicate placement of the M-16 sear pin hole.

A light stamping for "Auto" alone is as meaningful as if it were marked "Warp 6"!
Mere markings like this may make the finished gun look more Military authentic, but they do not have any effect on function.

There is no text, but as an "80%" lower I expect that the upper pic is AFTER the buyer has done a LOT of additional work, the lower pic is what they were selling.
Most of these are probably never successfully completed in any configuration.

Fully finished receivers are available from several companies, often for less than $100. They are already serial numbered by the manufacturer, and subject to the same restrictions as a complete firarm.

The big difference here is that these will mostly end up as paperweights, and can be legally sold via mail, without any paperwork.

It appears that BATFE is over-reaching, again.
Sadly they nearly always get away with creating new "law" under the guise of "Regulation", without the oversight of congress.
This case is probably the pretext for another BATFE "Regulation", this is probably a small company so that BATFE can establish their new "precedent", "proving" the "need" for more regulation without meaningful opposition.


17 posted on 06/12/2006 1:50:43 AM PDT by Richard-SIA ("The natural progress of things is for government to gain ground and for liberty to yield" JEFFERSON)
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To: Richard-SIA
An M-16 (full auto) sear requires additional milling to the inside of the lower receiver and the exact placement of an additional hole.

I haven't seen a picture of the internals so I don't know what additional milling would be required there. The placement of the hole on the outside can easily be accomplished with a drilling jig designed for this purpose. A quick search online turned up a few manufacturers.

A light stamping for "Auto" alone is as meaningful as if it were marked "Warp 6"! Mere markings like this may make the finished gun look more Military authentic, but they do not have any effect on function.

Agreed, but it does show intent. Keep in mind you are talking about the BATF and challenging them in this way is asking for trouble. I don't agree but that is the way it goes.

The big difference here is that these will mostly end up as paperweights, and can be legally sold via mail, without any paperwork.

Cobray probably thought the same before the BATF went after them in the late 80s/early 90s.

18 posted on 06/12/2006 3:43:10 AM PDT by killjoy (Same Shirt, Different Day)
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To: SWAMPSNIPER

That both instances are the criminalization of individual pursuits. Neither activity harmed anyone. Gungrabbers and drug warriors are the same. Gun owners should realize the destruction of liberty of others isn't an isolated thing. If we don't protest Tommy's being jailed for making glassware, they will be less hesitant to come the next guy.


19 posted on 06/12/2006 9:03:21 AM PDT by gcruse (http://gcruse.typepad.com)
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To: Lurker
That being said I wouldn't put anything past those incompetent boobs at the ATF.

One doesn't (well, I don't) normally judge boobs by their competence.

20 posted on 06/12/2006 9:20:41 AM PDT by Still Thinking (Disregard the law of unintended consequences at your own risk.)
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