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Posted on 06/05/2006 2:07:09 PM PDT by freepatriot32
Many gun owners fear that Ohio's open carry requirements in a car are going to get someone killed one day. Just last week, another incident played out that demonstrates just how dangerous the mindset of "man with a gun equals criminal" could be for law abiding gun owners.
Recently, a concealed handgun license holder was pulled over in Oregon, Ohio (near Toledo) after leaving a gas station. He was ordered out of his vehicle by police conducting a "felony traffic stop", eventually had to crawl out of his window (his doors were locked and he was ordered to keep his hands in sight, rendering it impossible to unlock them), and was ordered to the ground while being held at gunpoint. His crime? Carrying a gun lawfully.
During the ordeal, this man had attempted to advise the police that he was a concealed handgun license holder, but they were unable to hear him. Surely their adrenaline was pumping (this was a man-with-a-gun call), but the facts of the incident should have seemed to not add up to a crime in progress. A man had walked in and out of an establishment while carrying two firearms openly on his hips, but he didn't rob the place, paid for his purchases, and left without harming or threatening anyone.
Oregon police chose to cite Dan Sayers with failure to notify the police that he was a license holder and was carrying at the time, a misdemeanor of the fourth degree, despite the fact that the police report clearly indicates they couldn't hear what he was saying during the encounter.
This story, however, takes a turn for the worse: the police also charged Sayers with possession of a firearm in public, a first degree misdemeanor, despite the fact that the State of Ohio has licensed Sayers to carry a firearm for his self-defense.
The Oregon, Ohio ordinance says nothing of concealed or openly carried, it simply prohibits possession or carrying of a firearm in public. This is a complete ban on firearms in the Oregon community in direct conflict with both Ohio's Constitution and Ohio's concealed carry laws -- and OFCC will work with Sayers to see this matter resolved.
Local governments overstep home rule police power authority when they start to prohibit ownership, possession, and the lawful carrying of firearms.
Ohioans For Concealed Carry has been working with Sayers since the ordeal took place and we are going to follow this case very closely. The Sayers case is very similar to Patrick Feely, who was arrested for carrying concealed prior to HB12 becoming law in Ohio. Both men work in Pizza delivery, and like Feely, Sayers delivers in some of the worst parts of town.
Sadly, the County Sheriff's office has suspended Sayers' CHL, and his firearms have been confiscated by the police department. Despite our best efforts, we have not been able to identify what authorized the Sheriff's department to revoke Sayers' license. To the best of our knowledge he has not been indicted or convicted of a crime.
Ohioans For Concealed Carry referred Mr. Sayers to a Toledo attorney assisting the organization in our lawsuit against the City of Clyde, where "no guns allowed" signs were illegally posted at entrances to their city parks. We are continuing to investigate the Sayers case, and will be assisting Mr. Sayers the best we can as this case progresses through the courts.
This case threatens to create a dangerous precendent for Ohio CHL holders. Regardless of the fact that this city ordinance represents the kind of patchwork quilt of gun laws that currently exist at local levels (and for which no gun owner could resonably be expected to be aware of), there is an even greater danger. This could set the precedent for any CHL holder who accidentally unconceals his or her firearm, or who is in the process of complying with the "open carry in a motor vehicle" requirement of the law, to be subject to being charged with a crime. We will continue to work to keep Ohio gunowners safe from such abuses.
We will continue to keep our members and supporters updated as this case unfolds.
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Libertarian ping.To be added or removed from my ping list freepmail me or post a message here
They can't arrest ILLEGAL aliens for violating immigration law, but they do arrest a law abiding citizen??? What bozos. Even Barney Fife had more sense. This is one of the few times a lawyer is actually needed. It's just too bad the tax payer would eat the bill rather than the idiots who started this mess.
Sounds like "deprivation of civil Rights under color of Law" to me.
This is why home rule is a terrible anti-federalist idea.
Cities, towns, or whatever should just do as they're told by the states...period.
I hope this guy sues the city and the PD and bankrupts them both.
Authoritarian JBT-lovers are un-American traitors to the Holy Constitution, and belong as much in Git'mo just as the Richard Reids of the world.......
duh!... if every person (i'm not saying this should happen) stopped that had his weapon removed started to open fire and kill judges, chief of police and others...then I suppose it would stop.
When American cartoonist or tv shows refuse to show likenesses of Muhammad because of fear... well there you have it. Violence and fear usually beat out a "court order"... however we, the law abiding citizen, is continuing to be harassed by stupid cops like these when he could very well hit any area that is a KNOWN drug market and find weapons both concealed and unconcealed. Why doesn't he/she do that...fear.
This will go to court, the innocent civilian trying to obey the rules will get screwed. The police officer will get an "attaboy" from the politically connected chief of police..blah, blah, blah.
I wonder how many family members of the ATF carry without a license? Same with other agencies.
Weapons for me
not for thee.
Prison guards at various WW2 concentration camps were convicted and punished for crimes they committed while "under orders"; ... This needs to start happening to LEO's who violate their oath to protect the Constitution ... like gun grabbing. If this person wins a civil suit against the city for this ... the arresting LEO should be obligated to pay some part of it.
And they wonder why we call them Pigs.
Send in the lawyers... this is a civil rights abridgement case if ever there was one. Sue the police dept./town into bankruptcy and other citizens will be made safe from this sort of fascist encounter.
Don't get me wrong ... many of my very best friends are LEOs or former/retired LEOs. BUT todays LEOs seem more and more willing to violate peoples civil rights than ever before ... and IMHO ... it is come time for them to personally share in the punishment for going to far.
Don't worry. The ACLU will be right there to defend the civil rights of Mr. Dan Sayers. Won't they?
Thats the funniest thing I have read today!
Would you like to buy these from me i ll sell them to you cheap :-)
Not defending the cops here (because they were way out of line) but I've never been told to crawl out of my window when I've been stopped by the Police.
Something doesn't compute.
In Arizona we're told "if you are carrying concealed and a cop stops you don't volunteer any info, if they ask be truthful but don't volunteer." Sounds like that may be good advice for Ohio as well.
Well obviously the cops were yelling at him to get out of the car NOW, but keep his hands in the air clearly visible. The guy was afraid that if he put his hands down to unlock the door he would be killed, but also if he took too long to think about things they would have killed him as well.
Looking at it that way, crawling out the window is almost logical.
It still doesn't make any sense.
What did the pull him over for? Speeding? There are facts missing from this story that leave big holes.
Something does not compute.
Despite popular belief on FR, cops just don't tell you to crawl out of the window of your car.
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