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The Silence Of God (God Did Not Build Auschwitz; Man Did. Free Will Alert)
Townhall.com ^ | 05/05/06 | Jeff Jacoby

Posted on 06/04/2006 11:02:13 PM PDT by goldstategop

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The answer to the Pope's question is it wasn't God who built Auschwitz; it was Man. Human beings are endowed with free will to choose between good and evil. The same faculty that gave us a Pope Benedict also gave us an Adolf Hitler. We have it within us to choose life or to choose death. Those words are in front of us, written right in the Torah. And we do not need to go up to Heaven to learn how to serve God and love our fellow men and women and refrain from doing evil. We can do otherwise but the consequences will be severe for us. And in our exalted free will we are raised above the beasts but are not meant to be like them but are destined for greater things. Let us take the time to listen.
1 posted on 06/04/2006 11:02:20 PM PDT by goldstategop
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To: goldstategop
Man made Auschwitz and man ended Auschwitz. God has given us his divine wisdom it is ours to heed or ignore. We shall do good or evil in this world, we shall be saved or go into the darkness all is ultimately up to us. We all however when we perish from this earth must answer for the deeds we have done. Life is a buffett we get to eat, but ultimately we have to settle up the bill and there is no skipping out on it.
2 posted on 06/04/2006 11:11:47 PM PDT by spikeytx86 (Pray for Democrats for they have been brainwashed by there fruity little club.)
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To: spikeytx86

That's why thankfully we have that small voice within us. The description in the Elijah theophany in the Bible is remarkable for conveying to us we truly hear God when we stop to listen to the conscience implanted within us that commands us to continue on the strait and narrow path in this life. That is the greatest gift God has given Man and there are the few in whom it is void and they are evil and should be put down without mercy so the world can endure.


3 posted on 06/04/2006 11:16:59 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: goldstategop

good post, although, in my opinion, the conscience is not implanted, there are some, sociopaths, whom do not have a conscience. It has a preordained , or vestige to make a conscience possible, if and when it is developed. What happened at Auchwitz and other places, to me, since evil has no bounds, is a result of the devil and his legions being able to ursurp the power of undeveloped consciences. ? word games, perhaps, but, to me, mercy is in the judgement of God, as to your statement of no mercy, but I know what you mean, emotions prevail over justice, but watchout, as emotions prevailed then, or rather through the written word of Langbehn and LeGarde, who convinced the northern German, the Volk, who were into New Age sort of religion anyway, their minds were led to believe certain things.


4 posted on 06/04/2006 11:53:19 PM PDT by Keisha
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To: Keisha

There are a few people, the Children Of Darkness, the sociopaths in whom it is missing or deficient. The Bible knew their kind and that's why it extorts evil-doers to be dealt with harshly. Its too bad we've gotten soft to the point that we're soliticious of murderers' tender psyches. No, my dear friend, if they are not put to death promptly, more innocent people will die. The only way to defeat evil is to destroy evil people wherever they exist.


5 posted on 06/04/2006 11:57:30 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: spikeytx86

I am German on my fathers side, and wondered why at the age of almost 60, I will still, at times, catch myself saying, "I am a stubborn, authoritative person, the only thing wrong with that is I am always right!" egad, where did that come from? looks like alot of Germans had the same idea over there back then, is this kind of false pride in our genes or something? The Pope feels incriminated, a doer of this evil because he is German and was in the Youth movement then for awhile, he is human, and did not have on his mind what people wanted to hear from him at that time, he had human , internal feelings, wound up over decades. If you are not German you don't know what I mean, sorry, but I am convinced that the Huns, Saxons, Vandals and other ancient tribes , left some of their barbarism in generations to follow, through the dna.


6 posted on 06/05/2006 12:01:04 AM PDT by Keisha
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To: Keisha

I am German through my mother's side. My father's side was Romanian Jewish. The way I see it, is we're all responsible for our own behavior. Our parents' past does not follow us nor do our actions as children reflect upon our parents. The question of what kind of life a person leads is a matter of individual choice - and at that, a freely willed choice.


7 posted on 06/05/2006 12:06:14 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: goldstategop
Interesting post. Ages old questions. In keeping with the theme I could add "Why didn't God save his only begotten son from the cross?"

Personally, I think what was done to Jesus, tells us all we need to know about human nature. Let me be clear- I'm not saying anything about the Jews. As I read the story, several groups of people could have stopped Jesus's crucifixion, but didn't. Starting with Judas- who was Jesus's own disciple. The Romans could have stopped it, the people in the crowd could have stopped it- but nobody did. Of course, it had to happen that way to save us from ourselves.

The Nazi's had no God . As the Bible says: Without God, we are nothing. They (Nazi's)did terrible things. But with all due respect to the Pope- the people in the Concentration camps were set free. We had to go to war to do it, with great loss of life, but it was done. What gave "the Greatest Generation" the courage to go to war and make such heroic sacrifices? Also from what I've read of the history of WWII- there were times when we were only one step ahead of the Nazi's- in fact at the beginning of the war- we were losing. There were certain key events that HAD to go our way, or we would have lost. (Where did the liberals or anyone get the idea of an "easy war"?) I believe that God must have been helping us out back then.

Maybe it goes back to Genesis, when man was first tossed out of the Garden of Eden- we have to toil here, in this fallen place, and try to make something of it. We have knowledge of Good and Evil so we have the responsibility to to use this knowledge to give glory to God or to use it for evil. This place is sort of a neutral ground, and the battle between good and evil goes on continuously, in major and minor ways.(I seem to have said what you said- but with much less eloquence.)

Off subject, but, same theme- I've gone to Church on many Sundays where we pray for the troops in Iraq-which is great, and necessary- but, I'd like to hear more of people praying FOR THE SUCCESS OF THE MISSION IN IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN too. (just my two-cents)

8 posted on 06/05/2006 12:13:36 AM PDT by Pajamajan (Benedict Arnold and John Murtha served in the US military.)
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To: goldstategop

A bit of blame shifting by the Pope. Why did the current Pope help to smuggle Nazi officers out of Germany after WWII. He needs to take his own inventory and not God's...


9 posted on 06/05/2006 12:20:54 AM PDT by trailboss800
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To: trailboss800

Here is a very good piece that speaks to some things that actually went on with the Vatican and Pope Pius XII during WW2.

http://piusxii.hismercy.ca/index.html


10 posted on 06/05/2006 2:30:43 AM PDT by Mila
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To: trailboss800

Oops! On rereading your post I see that you are referring to Pope Benedict. I have never heard any of those stories. Do you have a link? Thanks.


11 posted on 06/05/2006 2:32:58 AM PDT by Mila
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To: goldstategop

bookmark


12 posted on 06/05/2006 2:44:00 AM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: trailboss800

Sounds like you have evidence that the pope was part of ODESSA. I'd be interested to see the facts, can you direct me to them please? thank you.


13 posted on 06/05/2006 2:53:11 AM PDT by RushLake (I neutered my dog, now he's a liberal.)
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To: RushLake

The Nazis' ultimate goal, Benedict argued, was to rip out Christian morality by its Jewish roots, replacing it with "a faith of their own invention: faith in the rule of man, the rule of the powerful." Hitler knew that his will to power could triumph only if he first destroyed Judeo-Christian values. In the Thousand-Year Reich, God and his moral code would be wiped out. Man, unencumbered by conscience, would reign in his place. It is the oldest of temptations, and Auschwitz is what it leads to.

Sounds like the Democrat party


14 posted on 06/05/2006 3:58:38 AM PDT by ballplayer
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To: goldstategop

bump


15 posted on 06/05/2006 4:12:23 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (I face pressure! You face pressure!)
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To: goldstategop; All
Personally, I'd like to accept the 'God allows us to have free will' theodicy because it suits my understanding of why people do bad things to each other. But then i cannot grapple with the fact the bad things also happen to people that other people could not possible be responsible for, such as natural disasters. Is God trying to test our faiths when/where applicable? Did He just set the Earth in motion with its physical & biological laws and then step back vowing to have minimal interference or none at all [none at all would invalidate some biblical accounts of intervention]? Is the 'good and the bad' all subjective and not properly placed in the divine context [this explanation sort of contradicts the 'testing our faiths' question...or does it?]?

Or could it be that I'm making the fundamental mistake of trying to comprehend God's actions/inactions by trying to think of Him through the lens of a mere human's understanding? Yes, I believe that's it.

16 posted on 06/05/2006 4:23:32 AM PDT by LowCountryJoe (I'm a Paleo-liberal: I believe in freedom; am socially independent and a borderline fiscal anarchist)
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To: Pajamajan
"Interesting post. Ages old questions. In keeping with the theme I could add "Why didn't God save his only begotten son from the cross?"

Christ as the final perfect sacrificial lamb was preordained, were it to have been prevented "save" would have been the Heavenly Father withdrawing his promised gift of salvation from all His children.

WWII did not happen in a vacuum there is a historical record that laid the foundation to follow how it was that a nation would follow a lunatic (Hitler) into the bowels of depravity.

I am of German decent my great-grandfather came to this nation as a stowaway in the late 1800's. He is a mystery, finding verification that his name here was in fact the name given to him at birth is like searching in a black hole.
17 posted on 06/05/2006 4:33:35 AM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: Just mythoughts
Christ as the final perfect sacrificial lamb was preordained, were it to have been prevented...

I believe it was preordained, too. However, this also implies that those on Earth whom history regards as responsible for Jesus' death, were not really responsible for His death at all since it was meant to happen the way that it happened.

18 posted on 06/05/2006 4:41:22 AM PDT by LowCountryJoe (I'm a Paleo-liberal: I believe in freedom; am socially independent and a borderline fiscal anarchist)
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To: LowCountryJoe
I don't presume to say that I know the will of god, but I do know something about math and from that perspective it's fairly easy to see how circumstances which may seem abhorrent to us at the time might actually be the least bad choice for an omniscient being.
When your beautiful 6 year old falls off the couch leaving a small scar on her otherwise perfect chin, it may seem horrible, but if fear of that moment keeps her away from the cliff edge at that moment when the rocks give way, saving her life, well then it was a small price to pay.
Civilizations are like that too. So long as we approach our relationship with God from a position of humility, and do our best to embrace his laws as our own, everything will work out in the end.
It's only when we believe that we are greater than god that our arrogance can lead to evil. When we allow our collective morality to be based on the feelings of each individual, the result is perdition. It's times like that which lead to what happened in the camps. Those who do evil, almost never know it... they believe in their heart that they are being just. But since they have abandoned god, they have only their ego to look to...only that arrogance to look for the rules... and that is the root of all sin.
19 posted on 06/05/2006 4:42:58 AM PDT by tcostell (MOLON LABE)
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To: Just mythoughts
WWII did not happen in a vacuum there is a historical record that laid the foundation to follow how it was that a nation would follow a lunatic (Hitler) into the bowels of depravity.

Chiefly, the hyper-inflation that occurred within the German economy after their nation was found [by the victorious alliance of nations] to be responsible for the destruction from WWI and made to pay reparations for that destruction.

20 posted on 06/05/2006 4:45:24 AM PDT by LowCountryJoe (I'm a Paleo-liberal: I believe in freedom; am socially independent and a borderline fiscal anarchist)
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