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To: Lurker
I want a detailed proposal. Your ideas are very general:

1.) Fine employers who employ illegal labor $5,000.00 per day per illegal for the first offense. A second offense doubles the fine and adds a five year prison sentence.

Fine. How?

2.) Increase the penalty for smuggling humans to 25 years in prison without the possibility of parole. A second offense is natural life in prison without possibility of parole.

Fine. This is an easy one, but it won't stop the human smuggling.

3.) Institute an immediate 100% tariff on private remittances to any Nation south of the Rio Grande River.

Absolutely... Government taxes are nice, so long as it isn't you being taxed. This is a tax, and it won't stop the money flowing out. The money will just find other ways to go out. How do you propose to distinguish between legitimate money transfers, as all transfers will be private?

4.) Make the verification of identity documents require on I-9 forms mandatory instead of voluntary as it is now. Employers who make a documented good faith effort to verify that documents are genuine are exempt from the punishments in Step 1.

How do you plan on enforcing this rigorously enough to make a difference?

5.) Increase the penalties for dealing in forged documents to 10 years in prison for the first offense. A second offense doubles the prison time.

Simple enough, but it won't deter the professional criminals. Increasing punishment doesn't do much for curbing crime if there's no provision for catching them.

I'll admit, I didn't read your post before replying last time. Didn't seem worth it. I want to know how you'll you solve the problem of illegal aliens, and you gave me some glib ideas but no solutions. Enforcement is going to be a bit*h, and you need to address how you're going to increase enforcement capability while respecting the rights of citizens, the Constitution, and the statutory laws of the land, Federal and State.

The answer is not simple.

109 posted on 05/25/2006 12:55:32 AM PDT by coconutt2000 (NO MORE PEACE FOR OIL!!! DOWN WITH TYRANTS, TERRORISTS, AND TIMIDCRATS!!!! (3-T's For World Peace))
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To: coconutt2000
You must be a Senator.

Do you understand the concept of 'enforcement' at all? If an employer is caught employing illegals, the fines and prison time come to bear. We have people who do that sort of work. They're called 'policemen'. Do they have them where you live?

Fine. This is an easy one, but it won't stop the human smuggling.

Wanna bet? Would you put someone in the trunk of your car if you knew you'd be facing a 25 year stretch at the Graybar Hotel?

How do you propose to distinguish between legitimate money transfers

I don't propose to attempt any such thing. I said 'all'. I meant 'all'.

Re: Step 4.: How do you plan on enforcing this rigorously enough to make a difference?

See Step One. Spot inspections on employers by those funny people called 'policemen' I mentioned above. If you want to get really specific about them it's the INS who enforces those laws. I'd have them do it.

Re: Step 5: Simple enough, but it won't deter the professional criminals. Increasing punishment doesn't do much for curbing crime if there's no provision for catching them.

Once again for the comprehension impaired; it's called 'law enforcement' for a reason. We have people who do this sort of thing for a living. We manage to break up drug rings, car theft rings, burglary rings, prostution rings, and put mafiosos into prison. I think our LE folks can handle document forgers.

I'll admit, I didn't read your post before replying last time

Then why on Earth did you waste my time with an insipid response without even bothering to read what I wrote? What motivates that kind of thing? Then you toss out this canard:

you need to address how you're going to increase enforcement capability while respecting the rights of citizens, the Constitution, and the statutory laws of the land, Federal and State.

Good Heavens I thought lead was dense....

What part of my proposal do you think is un-Constitutional? How do any of them fail to respect the rights of law abiding citizens? Which of them conflicts with existing Federal Laws? Why am I even bothering to converse with someone who admits he didn't even read my original post?

L

110 posted on 05/25/2006 1:10:39 AM PDT by Lurker (Real conservatives oppose the Presidents amnesty proposal. Help make sure it dies in the House.)
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To: coconutt2000
"Enforcement is going to be a bit*h, and you need to address how you're going to increase enforcement capability while respecting the rights of citizens, the Constitution, and the statutory laws of the land, Federal and State. "

Well you went point by point on Lurkers 5 steps each time telling us that it could not be enforced or would be hard to enforce (no logic to back your opinion by the way). If we take your "can't do it" attitude and apply it you GWBs plan or anyones else for that matter then NOTHING WILL WORK AND WE MIGHT AS WELL ACCEPT THE FACT THAT WE ARE BEING INVAIDED, OUR GOVERNMENT IS IN COLLUSION WITH THE INVAIDORS AND THERE IS NOTHING WE CAN DO.

Well maybe your right. After years of preferential immigration laws for 3rd world types maybe the USA can no longer enforce its laws and Constitution. Now that we have demeaned every person of European heritage especially the males, and have built up a core of 3rd world losers in the dumbocrap party maybe just maybe you are right and we should just STFU.

150 posted on 05/25/2006 8:15:27 AM PDT by Wurlitzer (The difference between democrats and terrorists is the terrorists don't claim to support the troops)
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To: coconutt2000; Lurker
I want to know how you'll you solve the problem of illegal aliens, and you gave me some glib ideas but no solutions. Enforcement is going to be a bit*h, and you need to address how you're going to increase enforcement capability while respecting the rights of citizens, the Constitution, and the statutory laws of the land, Federal and State.

Hmmmm...well, speaking from experience, I could adjust two words and you would have to answer this question:

I want to know how you'll you solve the problem of child molestation, and you gave me some glib ideas but no solutions. Enforcement is going to be a bit*h, and you need to address how you're going to increase enforcement capability while respecting the rights of citizens, the Constitution, and the statutory laws of the land, Federal and State.

Well? We're waiting?

Lurker posted rational answers to your questions and you're only response is "enforcement will be a bitch?"

So friggin what? Enforcement of most crimes is a bitch, get over it and find a better reason to allow the invasion to continue.

190 posted on 05/25/2006 5:51:07 PM PDT by Abundy
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