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To: strategofr; Mind-numbed Robot; GarySpFc

It's VERY ironic that TGJ would post an article that provides a link to a Russian organization that is filled with men who see the US leadership as "puppets" of the Carlysle Group out to occupy Russia. In other words, they're of the exact same mindset of some of our own old fools who have been suckered by Golytsyn (KGB out to conquer America).

And what about this Golytsyn guy? In my opinion Golytsyn is one of the most successful, if not THE most successful KGB operation every put in place. Why?

1.) Kim Philby, a Soviet spy and British defector was Jim Angleton's best friend. Philby was planning to defect and working with the Soviets when he was assigned as Angleton's partner. Angleton put all his trust in Philby. Philby learned everything about Angelton - his paranoias, his predeliction to conspirarcy theories, his fears, his thoughts, his weaknesses.
2.) Philby defects.
3.) Golytsin appears. He's very well versed in what Angleton's fears were, what he thought about the Soviets, and his paranoia concerning moles. Golytsin uses this knowledge gained from Philby's cooperation with his KGB handlers.
4.) Golytsyn moles his way into Angelton's inner circle. He feeds Angleton's paranoia. He uses what the KGB learned about Angleton to the KGB's advantage. After all, that was/is his real mission. Cause strife and in-fighing in America's premier intelligence agency. Golytsyn's hold over Angleton paralyzed the CIA.
5.) Golytsyn spoke to Angelton's fears and covered himself by convincing Angelton that any defectors who appeared after him were fake and they were sent by the KGB to denounce him. A CLASSIC KGB MOVE, i.e., a Double Agent, such as Golytsin, convinces Angleton that real defectors are double agents. The KGB did this to lessen the impact of real defectors. They knew people would flee their criminal regime and they had to have a counterweight in place. That counterweight was Golytsin.
6.) Present Day Goltytsyn Mission: Work with his KGB cronies who do NOT want to see the end of the Cold War and the lack of prestige it brought. But how? Easy. Convince people that the Soviet Union is just hibernating. Influence America's foreign policy by infiltrating "patriotic movements" Convince these people that the KGB is still around and ready to strike. Why? So these patriotic movements will influence their elected officials to be tougher on Russia which in turn will force Russia to see Russian hardliners' point-of-view, i.e., the US wants to occupy Russia.
7.) Stifle any criticism of Golytsin by convincing his followers to label Golytsin critics traitors. Golytsin knows very well that the worst thing to call an American is "traitor."

In short: So far MISSION ACCOMPLISHED for Golytsin. He and his KGB allies have managed to dupe and manipulate people by playing on their irrational fears. This in turn has caused lobbying of elected American officials to get tougher on the Russias. Toughness of Russia, in turn, allows the KGB veterans to get the ear of Putin and co. and convince them that the US is out to occupy Russia. Next up, the rebirth of the prestige of the KGB and the current FSB. More money spent on special services because of the "American threat," more trading with America's enemies, because of the "American threat." In short - A VERY SUCCESSFUL KGB AGENT this Mr. Golytsin. I wonder what rank he is now?

Bottom line: Proliferators of Golytsin's propaganda further the KGB mission - making them KGB accomplices. "Well done" (/sarcasm).

PS - It's no "coincidence" that Russian television and books are awash with documentaries and information about how much Godievsky, Penkovsky and Polyakov hurt the Soviet Union, but nary a word about Golytsin. Hmmm.


20 posted on 05/23/2006 3:50:41 PM PDT by Romanov
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To: Romanov
Sorry. No sale.

There is no conceivable "upside" for the KGB to have Golitsyn spill the beans on their operation.

The only result of the supposed "disinformation" would be to make us more suspicious and less likely to cave to whatever feints and ploys they offered. This is precisely the opposite of what they would want.

And your "paralysis" theory over Angleton is simply silly. He was never paralyzed, albeit he did credence Golitsyn over some of the other, less-well-positioned defectors. Who, in subsequent years have become more suspect.

And the popular claims against defectors on Russian-state controlled television...please...the last thing the KGB would do is say how the defectors who might be compromising still an ONGOING ploy....had hurt them.

21 posted on 05/23/2006 4:06:44 PM PDT by Paul Ross (We cannot be for lawful ordinances and for an alien conspiracy at one and the same moment.-Cicero)
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To: Romanov

And you call us conspiracy theorists while you believe that lulu?? You may be right but look at the web you have to weave to get there. In comparison, we are only doing normal inductive reasoning based on what is known.


26 posted on 05/23/2006 4:45:25 PM PDT by Mind-numbed Robot (Not all that needs to be done, needs to be done by the government.)
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To: Romanov
"It's VERY ironic that TGJ would post an article that provides a link to a Russian organization that is filled with men who see the US leadership as "puppets" of the Carlysle Group out to occupy Russia."

That Russian organization is presented in a negative context, as that of the bad guys. I've seen similar sentiments (to those of the "organization") from legislating and executive members of the United Russia Party.
28 posted on 05/23/2006 4:51:43 PM PDT by familyop (Essayons)
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To: Romanov

"Toughness of Russia, in turn, allows the KGB veterans to get the ear of Putin and co. and convince them that the US is out to occupy Russia. "

We did not get tough with Russia till the Ukraine Election scam - and thats when oil mysteriously plummeted to $38 - IN DECEMBER!!! Clearly, your thesis defies the laws of the space/time continuum.

Romanov, a simple "Straw Man" retort!? You are capable of far better spin than that. Would you care for a do over? How about something along the lines of straw dog or reducio ad absurdum? You have not tried that in a while.


29 posted on 05/23/2006 4:53:03 PM PDT by spanalot
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To: Romanov; Paul Ross; Mind-numbed Robot; familyop; spanalot
He and his KGB allies have managed to dupe and manipulate people by playing on their irrational fears. This in turn has caused lobbying of elected American officials to get tougher on the Russias.

Oh really? Wow, so Bush and Cheney have been misled by these conspirazoid lobbyists just like Putin has? What fools!

And this really has nothing to do with Atomic Ayatollahs, using energy as a weapon to intimidate and blackmail US allies and violating the sovereignty of Russia's neighbors? Damn Bush and Cheney for playing on our irrational fears.

32 posted on 05/23/2006 5:10:36 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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