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Putin's hard line echoes shadowy lobby group
Globe and Mail ^ | 05/23/2006 | GRAEME SMITH

Posted on 05/23/2006 11:34:06 AM PDT by Tailgunner Joe

MOSCOW — Its only known address is a half-collapsed abandoned building, and its only telephone number doesn't work. But somehow a secretive lobby group, with reputed links to Russia's intelligence services, has emerged as a possible source of inspiration for President Vladimir Putin's state-of-the-union speech.

When Mr. Putin gave his annual televised address on May 10, military analyst Ivan Safranchuk immediately thought the President's words about national defence sounded different from the rest of the speech.

"That part seemed out of place," the Moscow director of the World Security Institute said a few hours after Mr. Putin's appearance. "Maybe there was a different speechwriter for that section." More observers started wondering who wrote Mr. Putin's remarks, after political gossip websites pointed out the uncanny similarity between the President's text and an essay published by a private organization based in St. Petersburg that calls itself the Public Association of Veterans of Special Services.

If this lobby group did have a role in crafting Mr. Putin's speech, analysts say, it would be a troubling sign because the group also lobbies against democracy and favours a return to rule by emperors.

"It looks very serious," Mr. Safranchuk said. "It means these views have deeply infiltrated the Kremlin."

Mr. Putin's speech made headlines with the assertion that Russia must rebuild its military to resist foreign pressure. The President cited the nationalist writer Ivan Ilyin, saying the job of soldier should be considered an honourable profession. Russia's conscript army should be transformed into a two-thirds professional organization, Mr. Putin added, which would allow a reduction in the mandatory military service to 12 months from 24.

All of these ideas -- along with many of the sentences, paragraphs and the same quotation from Mr. Ilyin -- are contained in an essay on military reform posted at http://www.specvet.spb.ru.

The website claims to represent veterans of Russia's special services from the northern city of St. Petersburg. (Mr. Putin would theoretically qualify for membership, as he was born in the city and served the KGB and its successor agency the FSB.) Google's cached database of Internet sites shows the St. Petersburg site existed at least since February, and some Internet references suggest it was published months earlier, but it's impossible to confirm exactly when the military-reform essay was posted.

The site contains no names or contact details for its owners, and its only external link is to the FSB website. But registry information provided by Relcom Business Network Ltd., the site's Moscow-based host, says it is managed by somebody named Nikolay Petrov. Mr. Petrov did not respond to e-mails and there was no answer at his telephone number last week.

The website's postal address, southeast of downtown St. Petersburg, is a jumble of crumbling red bricks and empty window frames.

Alexander Yermolayev, a former KGB major-general who serves as executive secretary for a group of special-services veterans in Moscow, said he has heard of the St. Petersburg organization and believes it is legitimate. But the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991 splintered the KGB veterans into many sub-groups, Mr. Yermolayev said, and his group has lost contact with the former officers from St. Petersburg.

"Such bodies as the special services present great danger if they are used as political instruments," Mr. Yermolayev said. "But nobody thought or cared about that when they divided and broke the structure." A source familiar with Russia's special services said the St. Petersburg group probably consists of former and current members of the GRU, the military-intelligence unit established in 1918 by Vladimir Lenin. Unlike the KGB, the GRU was never disbanded after the fall of the Soviet Union.

The website argues that Russia should be ruled by one leader who isn't regularly replaced by elections. "Democracy is a trap, and democrats are demagogues," the site says. "For Russia, democracy is as foreign as cannibalism." Instead of democracy, the website proposes a blended model of czarist rule, Communist-era authoritarianism and votes with limited enfranchisement: "Like a democratic Soviet Union, headed by Czar Alexander III," the website says, referring to fierce nationalist emperor.

"There will be elections, but not democratic," the site continues. "Only the elite would be allowed to vote." Under the website's model, all ministers and governors would be appointed by the elected ruler, whose terms might last 20 to 40 years. Leaders of the Russian Orthodox Church would bless the leader and encourage support for the regime. "Thus the ruler will serve God, and people will serve the ruler," the site concludes.

These ideas aren't entirely outrageous in the country's current political climate, in which many Russians associate democracy with the chaos and lawlessness of the 1990s. Leonid Sedov, a senior analyst at the independent VTsIOM-A polling agency, said roughly 80 per cent of Russians dislike the idea of democracy. While only 3 per cent want a return of the pre-revolutionary czars, he said, about 16 per cent think Russia needs an authoritarian ruler such as Stalin.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: antisemitic; coldwar2; coldwarbyproxy; fascism; fsb; press; putin; religion; rodine; stateowned; unitedrussia
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To: Romanov
Sorry. No sale.

There is no conceivable "upside" for the KGB to have Golitsyn spill the beans on their operation.

The only result of the supposed "disinformation" would be to make us more suspicious and less likely to cave to whatever feints and ploys they offered. This is precisely the opposite of what they would want.

And your "paralysis" theory over Angleton is simply silly. He was never paralyzed, albeit he did credence Golitsyn over some of the other, less-well-positioned defectors. Who, in subsequent years have become more suspect.

And the popular claims against defectors on Russian-state controlled television...please...the last thing the KGB would do is say how the defectors who might be compromising still an ONGOING ploy....had hurt them.

21 posted on 05/23/2006 4:06:44 PM PDT by Paul Ross (We cannot be for lawful ordinances and for an alien conspiracy at one and the same moment.-Cicero)
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To: familyop

Don't know much about the issue.


22 posted on 05/23/2006 4:28:10 PM PDT by SJackson (The Pilgrims—Doing the jobs Native Americans wouldn’t do!)
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To: Rockitz

"the faux-westernization of Russia was a grand hoax designed to extract capital from the west to rebuild their military and infrastructure."

BINGO!


23 posted on 05/23/2006 4:38:52 PM PDT by spanalot
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To: Mind-numbed Robot

we'll have to wait - the phone is being used .


24 posted on 05/23/2006 4:41:58 PM PDT by spanalot
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To: SJackson
If you get interested and happen to dig for info (re. comment #9), the publication is owned by Anton Nossik. He once said that he returned to Russia from Israel for the larger potential readership.
25 posted on 05/23/2006 4:42:30 PM PDT by familyop (Essayons)
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To: Romanov

And you call us conspiracy theorists while you believe that lulu?? You may be right but look at the web you have to weave to get there. In comparison, we are only doing normal inductive reasoning based on what is known.


26 posted on 05/23/2006 4:45:25 PM PDT by Mind-numbed Robot (Not all that needs to be done, needs to be done by the government.)
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To: spanalot
we'll have to wait - the phone is being used .

Must be a Party line, pun necessary.

27 posted on 05/23/2006 4:48:46 PM PDT by Mind-numbed Robot (Not all that needs to be done, needs to be done by the government.)
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To: Romanov
"It's VERY ironic that TGJ would post an article that provides a link to a Russian organization that is filled with men who see the US leadership as "puppets" of the Carlysle Group out to occupy Russia."

That Russian organization is presented in a negative context, as that of the bad guys. I've seen similar sentiments (to those of the "organization") from legislating and executive members of the United Russia Party.
28 posted on 05/23/2006 4:51:43 PM PDT by familyop (Essayons)
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To: Romanov

"Toughness of Russia, in turn, allows the KGB veterans to get the ear of Putin and co. and convince them that the US is out to occupy Russia. "

We did not get tough with Russia till the Ukraine Election scam - and thats when oil mysteriously plummeted to $38 - IN DECEMBER!!! Clearly, your thesis defies the laws of the space/time continuum.

Romanov, a simple "Straw Man" retort!? You are capable of far better spin than that. Would you care for a do over? How about something along the lines of straw dog or reducio ad absurdum? You have not tried that in a while.


29 posted on 05/23/2006 4:53:03 PM PDT by spanalot
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To: Mind-numbed Robot

HAH!! or a cell phone?


30 posted on 05/23/2006 4:53:44 PM PDT by spanalot
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Some governments pay individuals for foreign media advocacy (including advocacy through the Internet), and it's not all that uncommon. Italy does, for one.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/11/12/172635.shtml
(NewsMax)
Russia and Immigrants From the USSR
Dr. Alexandr Nemets
Wednesday, Nov. 13, 2002
Moscow Plans Regarding 'Former Russian Jews'


31 posted on 05/23/2006 4:55:40 PM PDT by familyop (Essayons)
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To: Romanov; Paul Ross; Mind-numbed Robot; familyop; spanalot
He and his KGB allies have managed to dupe and manipulate people by playing on their irrational fears. This in turn has caused lobbying of elected American officials to get tougher on the Russias.

Oh really? Wow, so Bush and Cheney have been misled by these conspirazoid lobbyists just like Putin has? What fools!

And this really has nothing to do with Atomic Ayatollahs, using energy as a weapon to intimidate and blackmail US allies and violating the sovereignty of Russia's neighbors? Damn Bush and Cheney for playing on our irrational fears.

32 posted on 05/23/2006 5:10:36 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: spanalot

HA! "We" - you have never been tough on Russia - just in rhetoric. Puhleeze, you have grabbed at the wrong "straw" for years and now are apopletic. And, as usual, you miss the big picture. Of course had I spent most of my life following a KGB agent and declaring him the second-coming I'd be a bit disappointed too. You still have time to redeem yourself.


33 posted on 05/23/2006 5:12:15 PM PDT by Romanov
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To: Mind-numbed Robot

It's hard for you to see that you've followed a KGB agent for so long? Shame. Answer me this: If former KGB agents or any KGB agents are not to be believed why have you decided to follow Golytsin. Read the timeline. Do you realize how odd it is for a KGB "defector" to get so close to a counterintelligence chief like Angleton?


34 posted on 05/23/2006 5:14:30 PM PDT by Romanov
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To: Tailgunner Joe

"Oh really? Wow, so Bush and Cheney have been misled by these conspirazoid lobbyists just like Putin has? What fools!"

Neither Bush, no Cheney have called Russia the enemy. As the Golytsinites have. Do the math. But nice and predicted spin. You guys have won me some money from real analysts and I thank you! bahahahaha


35 posted on 05/23/2006 5:15:41 PM PDT by Romanov
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To: Paul Ross

Evidently you don't know who Penkovsky and Polyakov were. They were executed.

Look, I know its hard for you to realize you have fallen for a typical KGB operation. But Golytsin is a plant and has always been one. Perhaps you might want to look at the timeline AGAIN. Philby-Angleton-Golytsin. It's no coincidence.

Show me ONE thing Golytsin was accurate on. ONE. There are none. Or is it your position that the former Warsaw PAct countries, including those now in NATO, are plotting against us? Is it your position that the Russian military isn't suffering from low morale, rusting equipment, and a conscript force that is killing each other?


36 posted on 05/23/2006 5:20:51 PM PDT by Romanov
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To: GarySpFc

As predicted! ;)


37 posted on 05/23/2006 5:21:35 PM PDT by Romanov
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To: familyop

You miss the point. The Russian organization IS presented in a negative light in the article - that was my point. That Russian organization is the exact same as the paranoics that worship at the Golytsin alter over here. They see forces at work that don't exist and worship false prophets.


38 posted on 05/23/2006 5:23:36 PM PDT by Romanov
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To: Romanov
This in turn has caused lobbying of elected American officials to get tougher on the Russias. Toughness of Russia, in turn, allows the KGB veterans to get the ear of Putin and co. and convince them that the US is out to occupy Russia.

Oh so what is Putin reacting to then? Who is the culprit who has given Putin the excuse and justification for putting his fellow loyal Chekists into positions of power? More importantly, how can we convince Putin that we all just want to get along and sing Kumbaya together? How can we possibly appease Putin and achieve peace in our time?

39 posted on 05/23/2006 5:29:25 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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http://cia.gov/csi/studies/vol48no1/article08.html


40 posted on 05/23/2006 5:30:22 PM PDT by Romanov
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