And how in the world did this become a discussion of Calvinism versus Arminianism (sp?)? And here's some Calvinism that I like.
Posted on 05/23/2006 8:42:02 AM PDT by Paddlefish
Mark Inglis, an amputee who conquered Mount Everest on artificial legs last week, yesterday defended his party's decision to carry on to the summit despite coming across a dying climber. As his team climbed through the "death zone," the area above 26,000 feet where the body begins to shut down, they passed David Sharp, 34, a stricken British climber who later died. His body remained on the mountain.
Mr. Inglis, 47, a New Zealander, said: "At 28,000 feet it's hard to stay alive yourself. He was in a very poor condition, near death. We talked about [what to do for him] for quite a lot at the time and it was a very hard decision. "About 40 people passed him that day, and no one else helped him apart from our expedition. Our Sherpas (guides) gave him oxygen. He wasn't a member of our expedition, he was a member of another, far less professional one." Mr. Sharp was among eight persons who have died on Everest this year, including another member of his group, a Brazilian. Dewa Sherpa, a manager at Asian Trekking, the Katmandu company that outfitted Mr. Sharp before his climb, said he had not taken enough oxygen and had no Sherpa guide.
*********
The company charges $6,000 to provide services as far as base camp -- far less than the $35,000 or more cost of guided trips to the summit. Other mountaineers have criticized the commercialism of climbing the 29,035-foot peak, with guides charging huge sums to climbers with minimal experience.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...
Loving your neighbor does not include loving him broiled more than fried. :>)
Freely translated: "Believe as if it all depends upon God but work as if it all depends upon you."
Excellent free translation
We disagree, probably because I don't believe it's a sin and I suspect you do.
The thought of cannibalism is really disgusting, and I'm not sure I could do it. But theoretically, I think it's approriate under a very limited set of circumstances, as I mentioned.
"Poached...anyone...??"
:>)
Precisely. 8~)
And how in the world did this become a discussion of Calvinism versus Arminianism (sp?)? And here's some Calvinism that I like.
Nope. If I have to, it's gonna be chicken fried.
Now that's the Calvin I try to follow!
I said I came from a long line of Calvinists, but I didn't mention that I don't agree with them on some things.
I start with Martin Luther, and work my way forward.
I vacationed in the Sierra Nevadas of California for some solo climbing. I live in Virginia (sealevel). I got off the plane in Palm Springs, got a rental car and drove to the trailhead (on the east-side of the Sierras) at 9,500 feet. By the end of the first day of hiking I was dizzy but okay at 10,500 feet.
The second day I climbed over a pass @ 11,800' then proceeded over Thunderbolt Pass @ 12,500' before setting up my base-camp at the base of the Palisades. My stomach wanted to make me throw up; HEAVY nausea!
Day #3 I did a dayhike to another pass; I was out of breath but felt better.
Day #4 I attempted a solo ascent of Thunderbolt Peak (14,000') by the West couloir; I felt fine but decided to turn back by the severity of this Class 4 route without the help of a rope and totally alone.
Day #5 I went over an alternate pass 12,600' on my way out and enjoyed the trip to another base-camp I had chosen; I was acclimated at this point.
Day #6 I climbed Mt Agazziz @ 13,800' solo by a Class 2 rock route; very enjoyable and fun!
Day #7 I walked out to the car, went to see the Bristlecone Pine forest on my way south to pick up my permit at the Mount Whitney trailhead (that I had signed up for online in advance).
Day #8 I started the loooooooong dayhike of Mount Whitney (14,500'); its 11 miles from the trailhead @ 8,800' to the top and then 11 miles back: a 22 mile, roundtrip dayhike with a vertical ascent of 5,700' up, then down. I started at the crack of dawn and got back to the car after a successful ascent (Amazing views from the highest point in the 'lower 48 United States') by 9:30 PM in pitch blackness (used a headlamp that last 2 hours of decent). This was an enjoyable climb, and while long and arduous, I had no trouble with the altitude.
Spent the remaining 2 days of vacation sitting in my brothers Hot Tub in Palm Springs drinking Gin and Tonics and pigging out at some great restaurants (*LOL*)
Therefore, it took me a few days to acclimated to this particular altitude. However, full acclimitization (to where you're back to 100% capability of physical activity) takes longer.
Cannibalism seems to have been forbidden in the Mosaic Law of the Old Testament. I suppose it could be found elsewhere in the Bible. I don't know.
But something about it is repellent to me more than the thought of dying.
I also think perhaps Catholics have an easier time of accepting it, considering their view of the Lord's Supper. I know Shanley, who adapted the film from the book, was raised Catholic.
Sometimes pragmatism isn't always the highest goal.
And I should have added...
"Sometimes pragmatism isn't always the highest goal...as this story on Everest illustrates."
Even if he was dying, how does that matter? He was a brother in need. There is something very modern and atheistic about such an act, if you ask me.
Have you ever seen 'Touching the Void?' It aired on PBS a couple of years ago, and chronicled some British mountain climbers who ventured into Peru. Can't remember what name of mountain range was.
A couple of these guys got stranded about 3/4 of the way up. While they were trying to figure out a way out of their predicament, one of the guys broke his leg. After having tried to figure out how he was going to get both of them down the mountain, and because of the immense obstacles involved in that effort, he decided to leave the guy with the broken leg to his own devices. The guy with the broken leg did make it back to camp after an unbelievable struggle to get through the other side of the crevice he was stuck in, and then finally crawling all the way down the best way he could.
In the interview, he said that the night(s) he remained stuck in the crevice he felt a malevolent presence, yet claimed to be an atheist. That struck me as so odd, to believe in the devil, but not God.
Anyway, the other climber who had left him came under serious fire from the 'climbing community.' Apparently, to leave a climber is verboten. He said he didn't think he had any other choice, and the guy he'd left with the broken leg didn't seem to hold any bad feelings toward him.
"David Sharpe was "effectively dead". Frozen, he could only move his eyes. If this diagnosis is correct, it is extremely unlikely that he would have survived the descent. No amount of help would have saved his life."
This was Inglis' observation. From my experience your out cold unless it's possible to wake you. In this case I think it took the O2. He seems to have gone up and alone and stayed overnight. that's what put him in this condition.
Hmmm...should we save him...should we let him die...should we save him...should we let him die...???
Decisions, decision... How pathetic.
I actually just watched this last week and that's not what he says. He says that the crevasse was an awful, awful place and that he was filled with despair for a time, even having a little crack-up for a while. He'd long considered himself an atheist but now he considered praying. He rejected the idea though, confirming to himself that he really didn't believe in God. He says something like he'd always wondered if his atheism was genuine and whether he'd start praying in a bad situation like that and that fall answered the question for him. There's no malevolent presence described other than impassive ice and rock.
Any way we slice it, I think mountain climbers are nuts. Life presents us with enough challenges that we really don't need to go looking for them.
Your story reminded me of the man who stayed behind with his friend in a wheelchair as the World Trade Center collapsed around them.
By our fruits are we known.
We agree that one can't pass him by while he's still living. But we disagree on the issue of whether we can eat him once he's dead.
I believe it's not an absolute. It depends on the situation.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.