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To: Rameumptom

Luke 6:29: If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic.

Matthew 5:42-44: Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
Love for Enemies. You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies...

Luke 4:18-19 "The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor."

To me, we, as fallen mortals, need to fight the wars we fight, and cause the suffering we cause, in spite of the Gospels, not because of them.


19 posted on 05/22/2006 3:44:41 PM PDT by Nick5
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To: Nick5
Luke 6:29: If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic.

In context, this is a call to be slow to anger and to not be attached to your possessions. Because in John 2...

14And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting:

15And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;

16And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.

...Jesus does not exactly behave like a pacifist, nor does he refuse to discourage people from stealing. I don't think Jesus meant anyone to encourage others to violate "Thou shalt not steal." I suspect there is some degree of classic Middle Eastern exaggeration to illustrate a point going on in Luke 6:29, like when he said you do not love me unless you hate your family. He doesn't mean you should actually hate your family because he doesn't want us to hate anyone -- just that our love for him should make the love of family seem almost like "hate" by comparison.

As for love your enemies, he didn't mean that we as a society or as a nation should avoid punishing those who have it coming, because though he does love his enemies, he has no plans to avoid punishing them (see Old Testament, Revelation) and thus sets the example. Or that we should never ever protect ourselves from violence. Loving your enemies has been often used interchangeably with pacifism but it isn't so -- parents love their children but that doesn't mean they should not punish them when appropriate. That parents punish their children doesn't mean they don't love them.

This is the general rule, but the disclaimer must be given there is no telling what God may call on us to do or not do in any given situation: God may call on us at any moment in individual cases to withhold punishment in the unlikeliest times for the unlikeliest people, as in the case of Paul. Or as when David refused to kill Saul when he had the opportunity because he knew Saul was "God's anointed". He may well order Bush or whoever is president to not resist the terrorists -- you just never know because his means and purposes are mysterious -- but unless and until that happens, we have a right to defend ourselves as a country, at least as long as God thinks the USA is worth keeping around. (With the culture going the way it is, we may not be for much longer...)

On Luke 4:18-19... The Spirit of the Lord was never on Jesus to tout Marxism or socialism that erodes character by turning the safety net into a hammock. He intended for us to help each other face-to-face, not vote to increase somebody else's taxes to pay for inept bureaucracies without us ever having to get personally involved, and then have the nerve to say we did something and we care. As Mother Theresa said, "Governments can't love."

As for fighting wars, sometimes you really do have to fight. (See Armageddon.) Strange is the parent who would refuse to fight a man sodomizing his kids. And keeping in mind the disclaimer above, the same goes for nations under attack.

20 posted on 05/22/2006 4:48:16 PM PDT by Zhangliqun (Hating Bush does not count as a strategy for defeating Islamic terrorism.)
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To: Nick5
I was being a little one sided in my scripture quotations of course because we all know Jesus teaches all about loving your enemies. I was just trying to make the point that the "Peace" as understood by the socialist, communist, MSM conspirators is different from the Peace of Jesus Christ.

I do not claim to know God's will. But from the OT and NT it seems that we are commanded to be peaceful, unless God commands us otherwise ;-)

The Savior gave the best example of loving his enemies by laying down his life as the sacrificial lamb. There are also examples in the Bible when God told Israel to wipe out all the inhabitants of a City, Men women and children in war. Murderers and Rapists were also put to death. The bible says there is a time for Peace and a time for War. True peace will only come by following God. I believe many in the world believe a counterfeit peace.

The counterfeit usually involves promoting some form of personal immorality on a grand social scale. I disagree strongly with Socialist/Communist inspired Peace as it has led to the slaughter of close to a billion people in the the 20th century alone. Perhaps members of the NCC really are trying to follow Jesus the best way they know how. But I don't really trust anyone who adopts the creeds of known mass murderers.

26 posted on 05/22/2006 9:05:27 PM PDT by Rameumptom (Gen X = they killed 1 in 4 of us)
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