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Mexico Voters Fear Nation on Edge of Chaos
Associated Press ^ | May 17, 2006 | Julie Watson

Posted on 05/21/2006 4:06:24 PM PDT by Larousse2

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To: Tall_Texan
Do you believe Mexico is so corrupt and lawless that it could not be Americanized with a little stewardship?

Oh boy, talking about Mexican politics. I have all sorts of theories regarding the political culture of Mexico. Let me put it this way: if it was going to be done....well, then it probably should have been done during the time of Winfield Scott. Back then, under those different conditions we could have had far more latitude to do what would have been necessary successfully integrate the two societies. It would need an all powerful American "Viceroy" similar to what MacArthur was in Japan immediately following WWII. But even there I don't know because Japan was already a modernized, fairly successful, literate, industrialized society. Something like 65% of all Mexican adults only have at best an eighth to ninth grade education level. In the 21st century, that is just not going to cut it.

One of the things that facilitated the PRI's seven decade stranglehold on power was that the PRI never really had a human face the way other despotic regimes in Latin America do. Even Presidents were essentially seen as little more than "caretakers", a glorified bureaucrat who did what was minimally required to keep the country running till his successor took over. This stemmed for the Mexico's strict one term only rule for Presidents. Part of the reason the instituted the one term rule was so that it would make any and all would be insurgents and revolutionaries less inclined to "take out the top guy". If they could just wait just a few years then the guy at the top would be out of office anyway, -never to return. In other Latin American despotic regimes everyone knows exactly who is personally in charge and responsible for everything. People can personally direct all of their anger, frustration, and focus on a single individual and makes galvanizing and unifying political opposition so much easier and effective. Think of the Perons in Argentina, Somoza & Ortega in Nicaragua, Chavez in Venezuela, Noriega in Panama and of course, Castro in Cuba. The PRI by contrast really lacked this kind of giant, colorful, larger than life character. The true power behind the PRI was never really revealed yet its existence and influence was all encompassing and felt everywhere. Psychologically it had a strange neutralizing effect on opposition efforts in Mexican politics. Most people in Mexico simply consigned themselves to basically living with the PRI as a fact of Mexican life. Prior to 2000, the vast majority of Mexicans had never experienced real democracy. For decades, if Mexicans wanted have a change politically speaking, the only real option was to migrate to the U.S. because they knew that they weren't going to get it at the ballot box.

81 posted on 05/21/2006 6:24:02 PM PDT by Cyropaedia ("Virtue cannot separate itself from reality without becoming a principal of evil...".)
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To: dennisw
And Vicente Fox and friends wish to continue exporting chaos in the guise of illegal aliens, all to prop up his corrupt regime.

And our president continues to import chaos, all to prop up a failing Mexican regime.

Whart Bush is importing here is a permanent Democrat, trending Marxist, corrupt majority. He is building Mexico in Washington.

82 posted on 05/21/2006 6:27:18 PM PDT by arthurus (Better to fight them OVER THERE than here.)
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To: dennisw; Larousse2
Ross Perot warned us not to get into NAFTA.

NAFTA would be wonderful if, along with it, we kept Mexico and Mexicans south of the current border.

83 posted on 05/21/2006 6:30:21 PM PDT by arthurus (Better to fight them OVER THERE than here.)
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To: Cyclops08; Tall_Texan
At the risk of hijacking this thread, has anybody given serious thought to simply have the U.S. take over Mexico before Mexico takes over us? I mean, if we can overthrow the Iraqi government half a globe away, why can't we do it to our own neighbor?

I have posted arguments in favor of annexation for a couple of years now. The way I would see it happening is that either individual Mexican states or the entire country can vote to become a US territory with the goal of eventual statehood. Because once a state enters the union, it is equal to all other states, the period of being a territory would be used to normalize the economy and legal framework with the US laws. People in the territories could move freely into any other state, and people in the states can move into the territories, own property, hire employees, etc. This would begin the normalization of the income and employment gap. After the incomes are higher in the territories, and the political framework is revised, then it can be admitted as a state, with full voting rights as a state, and for its citizens.

I don't actually think this will happen, because of the nationalism of the Mexicans, but I think this is the solution we should push for anyway. If it works, we can expand our size to be more comparable in size to China and India, and increase our economy greatly.

But even if it doesn't fly, it is great political leverage against the government of Mexico. Right now, immigration is a release valve for the politicians who cannot or will not raise the standard of living for all Mexicans. If we block illegal immigration with strict border control, and at the same time offer statehood to the Mexican citizens, the release valve is on the side of the citizens; it becomes the threat of voting in a pro-statehood government. The Mexican government will then be forced to improve their standard of living, or be replaced with a pro-statehood government by the unhappy Mexicans. This is leverage we Americans or the average Mexican doesn't currently have.

84 posted on 05/21/2006 6:41:12 PM PDT by Vince Ferrer
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To: dljordan

Not organized into militias we don't. All that is needed is to reach a tipping point in numbers and we have a Bagdad situation.


85 posted on 05/21/2006 6:43:26 PM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: dljordan; RobbyS
"Do we need pistoleros in the street of San Antonio and Los Angeles?"

Robby, we've already got thousands of pistoleros on the streets of LA

...and San Antonio, and Dallas, and Houston, and Phoenix, and....

86 posted on 05/21/2006 6:46:28 PM PDT by TADSLOS (Right Wing Infidel since 1954)
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To: TADSLOS

You need to reflect on what the border was like before 1920. Ponco Villa is just a movie character to most people today. Then he was an alternative government in Mexico, Then there were a relative handful of Mexicans on our side of the border. Such a leader today would have followers in Chicago.


87 posted on 05/21/2006 6:50:44 PM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: Larousse2

I remember that movie... can't remember the name.


88 posted on 05/21/2006 6:58:43 PM PDT by Arizona Carolyn
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To: Larousse2

A good reason to not allow 30 million Mexicans into this country.


89 posted on 05/21/2006 6:59:27 PM PDT by SmoothTalker
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To: Larousse2

Yeah, but Ross was talking about the giant sucking sound of jobs going south of the border.

Turns out the giant sucking sound is Mexicans wading the Rio Grande to get those fine American jobs that Americans won't do.


90 posted on 05/21/2006 7:09:18 PM PDT by Ole Okie
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To: SmoothTalker

Heritage foundation calculates 200 MILLION based on the senate immigration reform proposal.


91 posted on 05/21/2006 7:11:01 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: Cyropaedia

I appreciate your insight. While I've lived in Texas most of my life, my trips to Mexico have been very brief. Most of what I know is from what I have heard, not from experience.

It just seems that there ought to be a better solution out there than a) let 'em all in or b) kick 'em all out. I keep thinking if we had more control over what happened on both sides of the border, we could find a solution that maintains some sovereignty without dividing families.

Living in Texas, I don't fear a Mexican "takeover". I don't feel a need to be afraid. I want everyone who is here, regardless of race, to respect this country, respect its laws and work to better themselves and their family. It seems like a fairly simply goal if we could just get everyone playing by the same rules.

Thanks again for your input.


92 posted on 05/21/2006 7:28:26 PM PDT by Tall_Texan (I wish a political party would come along that thinks like I do.)
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To: Vince Ferrer

Good to know, at least, mine wasn't an original thought. Like you, I don't think this has much chance of ever happening. I'd just like to see some outside-the-box thinking as opposed to the "sides" I see forming now. Thanks for your thoughts.


93 posted on 05/21/2006 7:31:09 PM PDT by Tall_Texan (I wish a political party would come along that thinks like I do.)
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To: Larousse2
Beyond a disappointment I'd argue. A disgrace!

Can't really blame Fox. He has been on U.S. welfare for so long that he hasn't had to effect any changes.

94 posted on 05/21/2006 7:34:55 PM PDT by raybbr (You think it's bad now - wait till the anchor babies start to vote!!!)
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To: Tall_Texan

Mexico is dysfunctional, and, oddly enough, I think it is the fact that it is being confronted by NAFTA, with its expectation of functional economies on all sides, that has made this apparent. Mexico has a state managed socialist economy which, like most such economies, has devolved into an oligarchy. The government there has given tiny socialist sops (such as primary health care) to the people and has protected the ruling socialist class (along with folks like Slim) from having to be part of a real economy, and now it's all collapsing.

We can't rebuild their economy - because they don't want it rebuilt. Some Mexicans are just fine with it as it is now (obviously, a tiny wealth minority). But we shouldn't let them hand off their problems, either, which is what our "run for it" border policy has permitted.

I have always thought Mexico should be billed, either literally or through trade penalties, for its failure to control its own border. This might make the wealthy there think twice before they pass off their dysfunctional economy on the US. They know that we're afraid of having a hostile country on our border, but they are actually already hostile and should be called on it.

BTW, if I were Mexican, I'd be fleeing, too. But the US should nail Mexico to the wall on this.


95 posted on 05/21/2006 7:39:28 PM PDT by livius
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To: Larousse2
What was the name of that film?


The name of the movie was Revenge. It was Madeleine Stowe who had her face cut up.
96 posted on 05/21/2006 7:45:20 PM PDT by rottndog (WOOF!!!!--Keep your "compassion" away from my wallet!)
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To: Larousse2
Israel didn't just build a fence; they built a barrier. Fences are easily breached. I keep hearing $3 million per mile for a fence...what, chain link fence?

Maybe they will hang a "beware of dog" sign on it. Anyway, money spent for a barrier is well-spent. If people can't climb it, no need for a jillion agents.

97 posted on 05/21/2006 7:57:57 PM PDT by Sender (“The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names.” – Old Chinese proverb)
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To: gpapa

ROTFLMAO!

(((((((((((((((((Thanks!)))))))))))))))))))))))


98 posted on 05/21/2006 8:11:33 PM PDT by Larousse2 (Sounds just like "The Dear Hilliary Letter"----a seamless web from cradle to grave)
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To: Larousse2

They need to clean their own house before invading ours.


99 posted on 05/21/2006 8:13:43 PM PDT by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: Lead Moderator

I've have wasy too much SUGAR today.

Sorry.


100 posted on 05/21/2006 8:13:44 PM PDT by Larousse2 (Sounds just like "The Dear Hilliary Letter"----a seamless web from cradle to grave)
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