Pope asks India not to ban religious conversions

Hindustan Times ^ | May 20, 2006

[nickcarraway]

India has responded with diplomatic equanimity to Pope Benedict XVI's seemingly provocative remarks condemning attempts to ban religious conversion in certain states.

The pope had told India’s new ambassador to the Vatican, Amitava Tripathi, on Thursday that the country should "firmly reject" attempts "to legislate clearly discriminatory restrictions on the fundamental right to religious freedom". He had also taken note of the "disturbing signs of religious intolerance which had troubled some regions of the nation".

New Delhi responded on Friday with a statement, reiterating the constitutional "freedom of conscience" and the right to freely profess, practise and propagate religion. "It is acknowledged universally that India is a secular and democratic country where adherents of all faiths enjoy equal rights," said a foreign ministry spokesperson.

It was the pope's second declaration this week in defence of religious freedom in countries where Christians are a minority. In India, the statement comes in the backdrop of Rajasthan planning to become the sixth state to enact the anti-conversion law the pope was referring to. Gujarat, Madhya Pradesh, Arunachal Pradesh, Chhattisgarh, and Orissa already have laws that bar conversions but allow re-conversions to Hinduism. Jharkhand has declared its intention to enact a similar law.

The BJP-ruled Rajasthan, however, has not been able to convince Governor Pratibha Patil to give her assent to the Religious Conversion Bill. She returned the bill making a point similar to the one made by the pope -- that its provisions would affect the right to freedom of religion.

The BJP has often attributed attacks on Christian missionaries, including the murder of Graham Staines in Orissa, as reactions to their proselytising. During his recent Bharat Suraksha Yatra, BJP president Rajnath Singh had described proselytising "dangerous" and asked all BJP-ruled states to enact a similar law.

[The Lion Roars]

Err.. ever heard of Hare Krishnas? And they're nice folks, shiny, happy people! Just like the bible thumpers knocking on your door.

Yes, I did hear of them? How many of these were converted to hinduism by indian monks thumping gitas? Was there a massive infusion of funds to convert americans to this cult? These people read about hinduism on their own and converted. Do you seriously believe that in the 60s these people could go to the bible belt and have the freedom to preach to christians? In fact in one incident an indian monk - Vivekanand - who tried this was stoned in Texas.

In contrast the british rule over india gave a strong foot hold to missionaries. To this day vast amounts of money are pumped into india with the sole purpose of defaming hinduism and destroying it.

[The Lion Roars]

What is evangelising? it means TELLING people about Christianity. If the persons choose to convert, that's their choice.

Unfortunately in India, it is more than that. It involves bribing, coercion, and relying on superstition to convert the poor. LEt the missionaries train their efforts on educated indians and see how well they succeed.

[ARridgerunner]

However, recent groups want to narrow it down and thankfully they aren't succeeding.

No, they remain inclusive but the others never were nor will be. What you see reflects the will to survive. (And in that respect, we part company because I wish them much success.)

[ARridgerunner]

LEt the missionaries train their efforts on educated indians and see how well they succeed.

Better idea: Let the missionaries train their effort on Americans, educated or not. (there's a challenge)

[GregH]

The reason why such visas may be refused is due to migration reasons..the chance of the priest running away from his sponsor and joining the illegal economic migrant population is pretty high.

There are all sorts of restrictions for people from Third world nations to visit the USA..most restrictions are to prevent economic migrants.

Most Christians dont really bother about such priests and dont want to restrict their religous freedom. Do you really think that the US or British state dept authorities are concerned about protecting Christian valuees? Are you for real? Do you even reside in the US? Just browse the any number of topics in FR that deal with the State dept and see what they stand for.

[GregH]

Spot on, the attempts of extremists in the RSS movement to create a anti-Christian movement failed miserably, they simply understand most Hindus did not share their ideology. As far as Christians are concerned, I think that most do realise that Indian society is open minded.

[GregH]

yeah could be.. considering the illiteracy of the people involved and lack of social development.

[GregH]

There are some racial orgins in this divide one would think, although it is not as obvious because of the population diversity.

[GregH]

There are some racial orgins in this divide one would think, although it is not as obvious because of the population diversity.

[The Lion Roars]

the chance of the priest running away from his sponsor and joining the illegal economic migrant population is pretty high.

Yes you are right. Chanting of vedic hymns is a popular profession for illegal immigrants. /sarc. Seriously do you have any incidents to support your theory. There are all sorts of restrictions for people from Third world nations to visit the USA..most restrictions are to prevent economic migrants.

Those are mere excuses. Much of the christian world still treats hindus and hinduism with disdain. Building a temple in the deep south in the 60s or 70s was unthinkable. Even today hindus have to run through hoops and loops just to get expansion plans for a temple approved anywhere in the US. By the way, did you know that the Hindus are the richest community in the US. They have the highest per capita income and are the most educated group in this country and I dont see where all this 3rd world excuse comes from. Most Christians dont really bother about such priests and dont want to restrict their religous freedom. Do you really think that the US or British state dept authorities are concerned about protecting Christian valuees?

Yes the US and British State / Foreign departments are concerned about protecting Christians. Alan Keyes was a US Consul Officer in India. The British Government regularly donates to prosleytising church groups to convert poor hindus. This is soo much true when aid is given after natural disasters like earthquakes. The US and British Governments care more for Christianity than the Indian Government could care for Hinduism.

[Cronos]

sure..the next pope is going to be an indian woman. /sarcasm

Congratulations Nimrod, you just proved how scant your knowledge is -- What I stated was "Papacy is not Indian or Italian or German or Polish, but is separate from ALL of the nations, yet part of ALL nations " which seems to have nothing to do with your bile against the Church. Also, you show your utter ignorance that the Church does not have women priests, so no question of the next pope being a woman from any country.

And to top it off, we then see a person who has no knowledge (about current affairs among other things) top it off by trying to say that the next Pope could not be Indian == completely forgetting that India's Cardinal Ivan Dias was one of those supposed to be Pope JP II's successor and that he's now in the 2nd most important post in the Church after the Pope. An indian pope next? May very well be..

[Cronos]

How many of these were converted to hinduism by indian monks thumping gitas?

Quite a few -- never heard of hippie colonies beign taught by "holy men" like Satya Sai Babe (a.k.a. Afro-hair style baba?)

Was there a massive infusion of funds to convert americans to this cult?

What cult? You're calling hinduism a cult? Why do you do that? Do you seriously think Hinduism is not deserving to be called a religion but you seem to think that Hinduism is on par with Scientology and just composed of mumbo-jumbo. Shame on you

These people read about hinduism on their own and converted.

Not all and not completely -- ever heard of the Maharishi? The same little gutter argument you make about Christian missionaries can be made abotu Hare Krishna missionaries -- neither coerces a person to join their religion, but just talks to people about it. But you, Lion Rar, say that Hinduism (in your words) is a cult, so do you call Christianity and Hinduism on par as cults?


To this day vast amounts of money are pumped into india with the sole purpose of defaming hinduism and destroying it.

ha. proof? Or are you just going to bring out a different version of the PRotocols of the Elders of Zion?

[Cronos]

LEt the missionaries train their efforts on educated indians and see how well they succeed.

Actually, they're doing markedly better among educated Indians for the one reason you seem to lack -- namely that Indians are smart and can think for themselves. These educated convert and are intellectual convertees (and/or faith derived)

[Cronos]

No, they remain inclusive but the others never were nor will be.

Really? The Bajrang Dal is inclusive? The idea of making Hinduism a narrow idea that goes out to kill people is your idea of inclusive? Or do you seem to agree with Lio that Hinduism is, in his mind, a cult?

[Cronos]

And in that respect, we part company because I wish them much success

So you support jihadis and other people who use violence to kill and maim?

I think it's good that there are groups like the Arya Samaj etc who seek to understand more and explore more about the deeper Hindu philosophies -- they're not a negative group (the Bajrang dal on the other hand and the VHP seem to define Hinduism as a negative religion -- viz. that it is NOT Christianity, it is NOT Buddhism, it is NOT Islam etc etc. -- how pakistani-like(where the pakis also view their country in negative-terms -- it is NOT India))

[Cronos]

The reason why such visas may be refused is due to migration reasons..the chance of the priest running away from his sponsor and joining the illegal economic migrant population is pretty high.

The visas aren't refused -- there are quite a few priests given religious visas.

[Cronos]

As far as Christians are concerned, I think that most do realise that Indian society is open minded

Yup -- unlike some folks here, most people IN India and outside realise that even the poorest Indians question things -- the power of a democracy. They aren't sheeple.

[Cronos]

The Muslimes in India are growing -- they were 11% in 1991 and 13% in 2001. The VHP etc. should realise that while Christians will talk to you about their religion and go away if told, the Muslims will just hold a sword to your throat and tell you to convert or die

[Cronos]

There are some racial orgins in this divide one would think, although it is not as obvious because of the population diversity.

Not really -- remember that the idea of race is a pretty recent, 19th century idea.

[The Lion Roars]

Congratulations Nimrod, you just proved how scant your knowledge is -- What I stated was "Papacy is not Indian or Italian or German or Polish, but is separate from ALL of the nations, yet part of ALL nations " which seems to have nothing to do with your bile against the Church. Also, you show your utter ignorance that the Church does not have women priests, so no question of the next pope being a woman from any country

Thanks Marduk. I didnt know that Cardinal Ivan Dias is the Pope in waiting. Unfortunately I dont have access to the future current times or whatever you read./sarcasm.

Anyways let me answer my own question - the probability of a non white becoming a Pope is extremely small. Atleast a time-series analysis of data seems to indicate so.