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To: Altair333
re :But the sheer number of Soviet prisoners (several million) precludes any claim for their man-for-man superiority.

You have to look at how these men were caught.

My the time the Germans invaded the Soviet Army was emasculated, Officers seniors and juniors who had survived were afraid to make any decisions that may incur Stalins wrath, so there was no real leadership at the start, also Stalin had forbade them to react to any provocations.

What was a provocation they did not know.

Many of those prisoners were men called up and reporting to barracks already overrun or about to be overrun, a great mass of unarmed men waiting to be processed into the prison camps.

re :The Finns certainly weren't overly impressed with the Soviets during the 1940 Winter War.

My points in my first reply to you stand for this as well.

Great masses of men were mobilized and sent to a front, badly led, badly supplied and unmotivated.

The Soviets started fighting better at places like Stalingrad once it finally dawned on them that they were in a war of extermination.

1941 Battle of Moscow was a victory for the Soviets it motivated them and they saw that the German Army could be beat.

By Stalingrad training had improved especially for Officers, there was still room for more improvement, the men were more motivated, and the Factories that had been moved East of the Urals were now on line and producing arms and ammo.

Even during the initial stages of the war when led even badly led the Russian soldier would display almost suicidal courage in attacking the Germans and in many cases blunted and almost turned a German advance.

I will have to look up the quotes from the German military leadership but even during the early stages they started to feel uneasy.

A good book to read is Barbarossa and Ivans War

126 posted on 05/19/2006 6:22:41 AM PDT by tonycavanagh (We got plenty of doomsayers where are the truth sayers)
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To: tonycavanagh
The Soviets started fighting better at places like Stalingrad once it finally dawned on them that they were in a war of extermination.

Hitler would have won the war in Russia easily had he just treated the conquered Russians humanely, they would have considered Hitler a liberator from Stalin. Hitler forgot the primary lesson for winning wars, make the enemy want to surrender.

141 posted on 05/19/2006 9:14:39 AM PDT by dfwgator (Florida Gators - 2006 NCAA Men's Basketball Champions)
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