Posted on 05/18/2006 6:22:58 AM PDT by freepatriot32
Traders Sports, one of the biggest gun dealers in the state, hopes a hearing in U.S. District Court next week will keep them in business.
Traders has been under scrutiny for several years by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF), which is trying to shut down the gun dealer. The ATF decided to revoke Traders gun permit on June 1. After an audit in 2003, the ATF claims that Traders can’t account for 1,767 weapons, and that guns sold at Traders turn up in crimes at an alarming rate.
ATF spokeswoman Marti McKee said she couldn’t comment on the hearing, which is coming up next Thursday, May 25 in San Francisco before Judge Vaughn Walker.
Traders’ owner Tony Cucchiara also declined to comment on the hearing, deferring questions to his lawyer, Malcolm Segal.
The gun shop claims the ATF’s figures don’t add up because of human error, filling out paperwork wrong. They also say the ATF is unfairly targeting the store and going beyond reasonable annual inspections.
“The law allows one inspection a year — that’s a law passed by Congress — and the ATF inspected twice in one year,” said Segal.
Segal said the ATF decided to close Traders after their own hearing in which they used records going back 30 years.
“The errors they claim are really human errors,” Segal said. “Any time there are thousands of transactions with serial numbers in dozens of digits, there is always bound to be human error.”
The ATF initially claimed in its audit that Traders couldn’t account for 7,477 weapons, but the number in the final account was reduced to 1,767. Customers going to Traders this week tended to be on the gun shop’s side.
“I don’t like what they’re doing because it’s a good store,” said Sonny Verde, who comes from Marin County to shop at Traders. “They should go after the criminals not the gun stores.”
Last week the U.S. Department of Justice filed papers saying that guns sold by Traders have been recovered in a crime at a rate of nearly one per day.
About one in every eight guns sold by Traders between 2003 and 2005 has wound up in a crime, the second highest number of guns traced to crimes of any dealer in the nation, according to the Department of Justice.
In 1994, Muckraker magazine featured a story on Traders, listing violations found by the ATF going back to 1970, including sales to people who couldn’t legally buy guns and “straw sales,” which is a purchase by a legal buyer who turns the gun over to someone who can’t legally buy a gun.
'Tis better to have a REAL hero for hero worship than some crackpot. Marshall was the greatest legal mind (other than Hamilton) which our nation ever produced.
Civilization requires the infringement of many "basic human rights" as you would find out should you decide to walk naked into city hall. Many of our rights are severely infringed as soon as we leave our homes. You have no "right" to fire a weapon anytime or anyplace you wish no more than you have the "right" to yell fire in a crowded theater.
First of all the "Framers" did not write any "anti-Federalist" papers these were the productions of the second raters among the Revolutionary generation. Secondly quoting one man's comments (even one as great as Madison) is not a summary of the debate NOR an indication of its final determination. But for those happy to distort and misinform it is sufficient.
The only thing "filty" in this discussion is your mind.
Which "crackpot" Founder would that be?
And yes, it is perfectly legal to yell "fire" in a crowed movies theater... if it is actually on fire. Same for a firearm. If I am being attacked, then I have EVERY Right to fire my gun in defense regardless of local ordnances.
Also, I'm not the one who is anti-Freedom here... you are. Your position is indefensible.
I was happy to see the Attorney General make his case at the time. He, however, does not agree with the Ultras that one should be able to take guns into the classroom, into bars, into courtrooms or that they can fire their guns at any time they wish any place they wish. Only the crackpot wing of the Right believes such things.
There are many scary people out in the world. That is a fact.
So now you raise the threat that "pissing off" heavily armed people could/should get you killed. And you believe that to be a "good" thing. Remarkable.
So had guns been allowed on planes the hijackers would have had them as well and it would have made their hijacking even easier since they KNEW what they were doing and other armed people would have been caught by surprise or blocked by hostages from taking a shot. I know you prefer silly macho fantasies to reality but don't expect those capable of thought outside of ideological rhetoric to agree. Oh, wait I forget you GI Joe wannabees would be sitting there with AK-47s on your laps just HOPING you get a chance to use them.
You don't get it about "random" shooting either. Most of those affected never even know what hit them much less where it came from or who shot. Sorry to apprise you of obvious facts but if the shot comes from a speeding car a block away it often isn't even seen by the victim. Rarely are there pitched battles between these gangs and even if there are which one would you be allowed to shoot at? Or does the prospect of being able to inflict carnage titillate you so much you don't care.
Not really. Why provide a safe work environment for criminals? The threat of death should be a prime concern for them. Despite your liberal whining, this is a good thing.
It would have been impossible to take over an armed aircraft. They might have crashed it in to the ground, but they could never have used it as a missile. And no, none of the CCW permit holders I know of "HOPE" to have to use their firearms in self defense. The same way no one buys a fire extinguisher in the hopes they'll set their kitchen on fire so they can use it to put out the fire. Your "reasoning" here is utterly rediculous.
As for your "drive-by" scenario. Would you want to attempt a drive-by in an area where people are KNOWN to be armed and would likely respond to the sound of random gun fire with a return volley? Don't be stupid.
You quoted Madison who else?
Pretty funny to see a clown callJohn Marshall "one, lonely, little judge". This is a Titan whose impact upon our nation is exceeded by only a few others. A man synonymous with legal brilliance dismissed by a lonely, little keyboard jockey.
Civilization requires the infringement of many "basic human rights"
Can I quote you on that one? The Founders felt that civilizations highest goal was the PROTECTION of individual Rights. That the infringement of those Rights was governments highest evil.
Guess that makes you either a Democrat or a dictator. It sure as hell puts you squarely AGAINST the stated purpose of this website.
Naturally I was not referring to real fires but gratuitous yelling.
And naturally I was not referring to defending oneself but confirmed and dedicated liars care nothing about the REAL statements just their straw men.
It is not I who are stupid many of the drive bys occurr in areas where the people are armed or are attacking others who are armed. If you are so foolish as to believe people in the ghettos are NOT armed then you need to get out more.
All so you can continue to hold Marshall on a pedestal and support your anti-freedom agenda. And you call ME a "lonely, little keyboard jockey." Laughable...
Protection of individual rights comes through ceding some of those rights to government. Some called it a Social Contract. You no longer have the right to personally punish those who transgress against you. You do not have the "right" to enslave another. Walk naked in town is forbidden. There are many such instances. Living outside of society is much freer in many respects.
You have no right to enter Mexico and become a citizen. You have no right to annoy everyone else. You have no right to tyrannize your family. There are many such examples as I am sure you know even though you pretend otherwise trying to gain rhetorical points from the Ultra cheering section.
Marshall was a man who put his life on the line for freedom in fighting for this country's independence. His resistance against the Jeffersonians alone is sufficient to make him a great man.
You referred to quotes you allegedly put on this thread when in fact there was only that from Madison. I don't care to wade through other out of context and incomplete quotes NOT already here.
My remark about you is far more accurate than yours about Marshall a former freedom fighter, US representative, Secretary of State, Attorney General and the greatest jurist this nation ever had and in the handful of the greatest in the World.
The stance for which you argue tends to remove the ability of those innocent, non-scary people to defend themselves. That stance is, at a minumum, immoral.
I can't understand for the life of me why, if this is what you believe, you would belong to an organization like the NRA.
This is NOT a good thing. No matter how you try and twist it.
Ah... and the other Founders were just free loaders? It was Marshall against the King all by his onesy? You are delusional.
No, I quoted only from Elliot's on this thread, some of which was Madison expounding upon the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Which you completely ignored. On other threads, I have tried to use quotes from the various Founders and Anti-/Federalist papers to try and convince you of your error. None of those seemed to phase you either.
You cling to this one judges error as if your life depended on it, when in fact... it may be that belief that gets you killed from being disarmed against a criminal. Strikes a certain note of irony to me.
Yeah... and those folks who merely WROTE the Constitution and the BoR should take a backseat to your trumped up Attorney? I don't think so... I'll go with original intent first.
A bigger irony is his membership in the Federalist Society, even though his stance here is supremely Statist.
"Well Regulated".
People unfamiliar with VPC probably shouldn't post on gun threads. That is equal to being unfamiliar with the term .357 Magnum then trying to give handgun advice.
Plus you cover all of their talking points nicely and stayed away from the ones that they cannot spin.
Plus, if you think that there are no guns in schools or bars then you have Coke bottle rose colored glasses.
Rose colored contacts on your eyeballs too.
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