"A HOUSE DIVIDED" - Pukin's FReeperversary Rant

[Vicomte13]

"Excellent post. Most of the Bushbots here fail to realize the importance of immigration. It truly is unlike any other issue of the day. If Bush's plan goes through, we can say goodbye to the Republican Party (not just in '06 due to voter apathy, but forever due to millions of new former-illegals Democrat votes)."

Thank you, but the situation isn't quite that dire.

Bush's plan won't go through. The House will refuse to capitulate on amnesty. So we will have status quo.
Yes, the Republicans will lose in 2006, but it won't be voter apathy. It will be BorderBots refusing to vote for Republicans they previously supported, but who supported the President's plan didn't give them the sealed border.
What we will get, then, is a Democratic Congress (with small, not huge, majorities) and status quo on immigration.

Status quo means 2 million new illegals slip through a year (the Border Patrol's 2005 statistics were 3 million crossings and 1.1 million captures and returns). SOME of them will indeed be registered to vote by the Democrats in rotten boroughs, and some will vote. But most won't. So, the situation will drift.

A Democratic Congress might try for a permanent-majority-making (for them) amnesty and fast-track citizenship, but there will still be a filibuster in the Senate (which they may well nuke), and the Presidential veto (which they will not be able to override).

Meanwhile, the chastened Republican Party, which will have lost more than a few border moderates, will repackage itself and add a wall at the Southern Border as a core platform point. The Republican nominee in 2008 will probably support that point, and if he does the BorderBots will come roaring back to the polls and the Republicans roar back to the majority.

Incidentally, I call Border Conservatives "BorderBots" affectionately, because even though I don't share the full magnitude of their concern, I understand where they are coming from and see that they are sincere.

But I don't like the term "Bushbot", and suggest you don't use it. It implies that there is something wrong with President Bush, and there is something wrong with the people who are loyal to him and support him. President Bush is a good man and a good President. He's made a bad error here - as have we all; he just happens to be the President so his errors get magnified - but he's still a good President, and there's nothing wrong with people who are loyal to him. They are frantic about seeing the whole Republican agenda, which they truly believe in, cast up on the rocks by what they perceive as a bunch of bitter-ender fanatics. The BorderBots are too hard on the Bushbots, and the Bushbots are too hard on the BorderBots. "BorderBot", is not a pejorative term in widespread use here, but "Bushbot" is.

We should stop calling people Bushbots. It's not fair.

[cyberaxe]

.....your right.....

.....all the infighting.....

.....has been gettin old.....

.....the latest batch with stiffies @ the illegal alien thingy.....

.....got all hot-n-bothered as a result of the MSM.....

.....i didn't realize that the Mexicans just started coming over last year?!?!.....

[Junior_G]

I'm afraid I tuned out after reading the self-indulgent title, but I'm sure it was a swell rant.

[Quix]

China would be happy to pour 200 million through Mexico in that time span. Less for them to feed, more trouble for us.

The Globalists are intent on erasing the borders of NORTHAM. That's just a fact. Shrillery wants to be Tyrannical Queen Bw*tch of NORTHAM. That's just another fact. She'd prefer of the world but probably realizes that's not going to happen.

The Globalists don't really care how many evil ways the achieve their goals. Shredding the border is just one and an important one.

Putting factions and groups of our culture against each other so our society, especially our families and Christian churches are shredded--is another key strategy.

Ignoring such facts is not wise.

--Computer working a bit . . . Sigh.

[onyx]

To: ForGod'sSake

I think the worst flamers are those who come in here to trash the president and the "bushbots" every day, every thread and every post. I see it as trolling. Trolls are people who come into a forum to trash the place. Doesn't matter to me if they think they are high and mighty "true" conservatives or not. A troll is a troll is a troll. I also see what some of our so-called "true" conservatives post on their antifreeper sites. Yeah, well maybe I give some of our people a little leeway. I know what it's like to be on the receiving end of spiteful more patriotic than thou "true" conservatives. Some of the nastiest trolls have already been ejected and I'm sure others will follow. When people get to the point that they hate us, hate FR, and hate what we are trying to accomplish here, maybe they should just leave and join a site where their views are better appreciated. Why hang around to make themselves and everyone else miserable?

279 posted on 05/12/2006 12:03:01 AM EDT by Jim Robinson

[Jim Robinson]

I think the worst flamers are those who come in here to trash the president and the "bushbots" every day, every thread and every post. I see it as trolling. Trolls are people who come into a forum to trash the place. Doesn't matter to me if they think they are high and mighty "true" conservatives or not. A troll is a troll is a troll. I also see what some of our so-called "true" conservatives post on their antifreeper sites. Yeah, well maybe I give some of our people a little leeway. I know what it's like to be on the receiving end of spiteful more patriotic than thou "true" conservatives. Some of the nastiest trolls have already been ejected and I'm sure others will follow. When people get to the point that they hate us, hate FR, and hate what we are trying to accomplish here, maybe they should just leave and join a site where their views are better appreciated. Why hang around to make themselves and everyone else miserable?

[Pukin Dog]

He was listening to both sides, Spiff.

I have always counted you among those who know how to respectfully disagree with Bush, and I thank you for it.

This is one where we may have to swallow some parsley to get at our steak. We can win them all, but maybe the House can dial things back a bit. The Senate screwed up yesterday, and I am hearing that the House intends to bring back the Border Security certification during reconciliation. We shall see.

[pissant]

They have taken big steps and we were headed in the exact wrong direction until Reagan became President. After a mediocre GHWB administration, we managed to survive 8 years of Slick Willie, due mainly to the House of Reps. Bush, in many ways is Reagan's heir. He has restored dignity and a hawkish foriegn policy to our country.

I'm wide awake. I want to see the Reagan revolution continue. So I keep pushing. But fights over policy amongst conservatives is not a bad sign, its a good sign. It shows me that conservatism is alive and well. And as long as that is the case, and we do not devolve into a lame stupor like the British Tories, then we can continue to keep the commies from power. If we become complacent like the GOP Senators, we will fall and fall hard.

[tomahawk]

Importing tens of millions people from the Third World, legally, added to the millions more who will still come illegally with a sieve for a border will destroy this nation's identity.

I don't care if the GOP is behind it. It is fatal to this country's future.

[Protagoras]

If you vote Democrat or sit out the vote to "show them" - you get what you deserve:

Right, vote Republican so you can get the Justices you deserve.

[Lekker 1]

NEWS FLASH...Bush has decided not to run for another term. Pukin Dog makes an excellent point.

[GarySpFc]

Even though you KNOW that what I said was that I don't ask people if they are illegals, it was still wrong to do, and I have stopped the practice. If you had been paying attention, I have changed my position on immigration as well. But if you want to continue to mischaracterize what I said, I guess that is your right. If you think I am not a Conservative, go back and read what I said about scorpions.

Pukin, I have not seen any posts on your part, which reflect a change of position on illegal aliens, but I will take your word and I applaud you for that. That said, I don't believe I mischaracterized what you said, nor did I see what you said about scorpions, but I don't see any point in belaboring the issue.

We do need to be respectful and not divisive. However, illegal immigration is a major issue being debated in the House, Senate, and at lower levels of government. It is a divisive issue, but then so was the Mier's appointment. It is easy to say, "Let's be pragmatic, and allow amnesty." That however is like trying to sweep an elephant under your rug. The long term consequences are too profound, and many wanting amnesty want to stop the debate. Let's be respectful, but continue with the debate.

[small voice in the wilderness]

Why hang around to make themselves and everyone else miserable?

AMEN.

I say "JUMP. For the loveofgawd, just JUMP. And get us all out our your misery."

[daybreakcoming]

He has lost his base...I mean you know it is bad when Ted Kennedy is praising President Bush.

Which brings up a thought, if you don't mind, I have wondered before if "praising President Bush" by a despised demo, i.e. Kennedy, Reid, etc., is not a smart move by the demos to alienate us. Nah, they're not that clever are they? But how many times have I seen the President bashed on here because of it....

[NinoFan]

Importing tens of millions people from the Third World, legally, added to the millions more who will still come illegally with a sieve for a border will destroy this nation's identity. I don't care if the GOP is behind it. It is fatal to this country's future.

Couldn't agree more.

[BigSkyFreeper]

I suspect the '04's with no state flag, live in red states and use FR to vent, demoralize and suggest the "GOP be taught a lesson" in other states and nationally. Misery likes company.

Very good assessment, and I wholeheartedly agree.  This defeatist attitude isn't going to gain us any ground, it just emboldens the enemy to get even more vicious than the day before. 

[Sir Gawain]

have to credit those who have been critical of the President's position and also credit the Minuteman Project for so deftly calling national attention to the problems at the border. Just like the Harriet Meiers episode, the President has proven that he can be forced to listen to his base.

That's the sad part, that he has to be forced to do things that should come natural to a conservative (whose party happens to have control of all three branches). We shouldn't have to be wasting our energy fighting him. We should be able to be fighting along side him against the Democrats.

[labard1]

Good rant. Now if Bush were able to be as articulate as you are maybe we could get out of the mess his silence has created.

[CougarGA7]

If the GOP has to learn through losing elections - then we have no party to begin with. Because, losing is furthering the other side and is not acceptable. Unless you are working for the other side which apparently is true of many here now.

I agree. And I hate that mindset when I see it. It's like me saying to my kids that I'm going to go beat their mom so they will learn to do what she says.

Turning the country over to Democrats in order to teach Republicans a lesson is asinine and will do more damage to the people of this nation.

[Prokopton]

"I am issuing a challenge to every person who considers him or her to be a Conservative; why don’t we all commit to a return to HONOR?"

Fair enough. However, this includes posters sharing your views acknowledging that there are many honorable FReepers who do not.
I understand that there are posters who believe that the best way to have their values represented is to elect Republicans, even if they do not share their values. I respect the position, that some hold, that it is better to have Republican control even if it advances an agenda that is distinctly non-conservative. Keeping control in one party, at all costs, does have advantages.

On the other hand there is much to be said for voting only for people that you think will advance the principles you believe in. It is an honorable position that sometimes it is necessary to take a step back in order to insure that those representing us understand that those who vote for them cannot be taken for granted.

Unfortunately, posting anything that does not support the Republican party or the policies of the President will immediately bring torrents of name calling and accusations of "Bush bashing" or "Bush hating". I, and many FReepers who share my views, do not hate the President nor should my disagreement with his policies be considered "bashing".

I agree with you that, in general, the President should be treated with respect. Mindless name calling does not advance anyones agenda. There is, however, a place for humor, including political humor that makes fun of those in positions of power. I hope we have not become so thin skinned that we take offense at every perceived slight.

Anyone who has been around FR for awhile understands that the posts that are the most effective are the ones based on(supported) facts and written in a logical style. This is the way to convince others of your position. In my mind, the more of this type of post the better. Nevertheless, any forum about politics and religion and other "hot button" issues will, quite naturally, bring out the emotional side of people. This is also part of the "life" that is Free Republic.

I join you in the challenge to make (keep) FR a place where posters respect each other even while arguing against each others positions. Name calling, ad hominem attacks and the questioning of each others "honor" should be avoided. We must, however, keep our sense of humor, even about ourselves, and not stifle the good natured pushing and shoving that is an integral part of political debate.

[onyx]

They won't jump. They'll have to be shoved.

They're here to divide, conquer and demoralize.