Posted on 05/16/2006 10:35:33 AM PDT by greenpagan
CNN Poll [John Podhoretz] David Frum, the smartest man I know, got it wrong. CNN has a poll just up, and the results are staggeringly in the president's favor. 79 percent of those who watched had a very favorable or favorable view of the speech, and those who support the president's policies rose in number from 42 to 67 percent. Posted at 1:02 PM
Hey, you never know out there in the land of fruits and nuts...That is however, funny...
You're right!
"In 2004 I never saw one national poll that showed immigration in the top 5, 6 or even 7 issues among voters. "
Considering we are fighting a global war against terrorism and in 2004 we were still recovering economically, I am unsurprised. Yet it remains that Bush decided to make a prime-time speech on it, and neve refore did millions of illegal immigrants march to demand their 'right' to citizenship.
Pity Bush did this ... He could have made a LOT futher with conservatives making a speech on tax cuts and the need for fiscal responsibility.
Immigration is one of those "iceberg" issues, where far more lurks beneath the surface than on top... Immigration changes the nature of the country and is affecting all our law in hidden ways.
For example, the large numbers of illegal aliens in jails, crowding schools that impact taxes, and the homeland security implications of lack of border control. Not to mention economic impacts. we can get a lot of things right and get immigration wrong and the nation still will go wrong.
"And don't kid yourself, there are plenty of people who follow this closely and don't require a cynical decoder ring to understand what was said last night."
What was said last night was that Bush supports Hagel-Martinez approach... that was clear enough.
My point was that the talking points on the stuff the Republican base wants, were stated, but you scratch the surface and there is less there than meets the eye.
Yes, 6 million illegal immigrants were apprehended ... but the numbers wree less than under Clinton, while the number of ilegal immigrants each year has grown.
For example, I read today that Bush administration has behind closed doors opposed the CLEAR Act. My Congressman, Lamar Smith, proposed that; it is common-sense bill to give local and state law enforcement funding, tools and legal encouragement to enforce immigration laws. Now why would President Bush not want that help?
" The devil is in the details to be sure, but the executive branch is not writing the legislation, they are not the center of action at the moment."
There is plenty of devil in details as the devil's close kin (aka Sen Kennedy staffers) *wrote* 95% of the radical "compromise" bill. Bush has a bad habit of wanting something to sign and not caring what's in the bill. This has the potential to be his worst mistake, if conservatives dont sae him from himself.
Glad of the good poll numbers for the President but it is appalling that people are so easily swayed by a speech or a news report. It shows that their overall information systems and critical thinking skills are sadly lacking. Much like junior high girls in a clique, look, sound and think lockstep/alike.
Isn't that something? Here we are, the most popular conservative site on the web .. and it demonstrates an embarrassing amount of vitriol, cynicism and punk liberal behavior. Wake up, people!!
"The reality is the majority of the public have not gone off the deep end (like a small minority within our base)"
The majority of Americans support the common-sense approach embodied in the House bill, HR4437. That bill secures the border and enforces the law.
" when it comes to this 40 year in the making, complex immigration (and illegals) problem."
This problem is 40 years in the making because 40 years ago Ted Kennedy help write a bad immigration bill.
Then to 'fix' the problem, another bad immigration bill was passed that granted amnesty to illegal aliens. That amnesty was a total and utter failure at its intended goal of cutting illegal immigration. It had the opposite effect and millions more came in. Fraud was rampant.
Since 1986, we have had non-enforcement of immigration laws in the interior. Workplace enforcement became hollow due to lack of any sanctions to employers, so long as workers showed some form of (often faked) ID. The Clinton administration aided and abetted the scam by passing 'anti-discrimination' laws preventing employers from challenging worker's immigration status, so long as they had (faked) identification. It has gotten worse: Banks aid the illegal immigrants with mortgages, etc.
Is illegal immigration a 'problem' at all? If it is a problem of "we have illegal immigrants and they should go home", then surely the 'solution' cannot be a form of "well, they will stay and we make them citizens."
Why are planning to do the ONE THING guaranteed to magnify all the ill effects of illegal immigraion? Granting citizenship to 10 million illegal aliens, with low education and wage levels, will:
- further degrade the economic situation of our nation's most vulnerable, those on the bottom of the economic ladder
- Government services costs will skyrocket (billions in costs added)
- Enforcement (lax as it is) will be come impossible as INS resources get diverted to a massive amnesty administration nightmare
- More illegals will be encouraged to migrate, knowing that if they stay another 20 years, another amnesty awaits
"GWB gave a very good speech last night that addressed the issues surrounding this debate and pushed forth common sense policies at addressing these problems."
Border security? Check - common sense - wish he did it 6 years prior.
Employer enfrocement? Check - why doesn't he do it already?.. all he has to do is send the INS agents to *DO* something.
Requiring English for citizenship? Check - common sense - wish he would actually support what he says he does. Right now they have these ceremonies in Spanish. Just like our ballots (why cant they be English-only btw?)
BUT ...
What is 'common sense' about that disastrous idea to give amensty to 8 million illegal aliens and let them jump the line to citizenship ahead of the millions of legal immigrants who are obeying the rules?
What is 'common sense' about repeating the mistakes of the 1986 bill, only 4 times as large?
What is 'common sense' about a bill that will bring over 100 MILLION immigrants, swamp our country, massively change our culture, politics and economy ... all because we are too wimpy to send a few INS agents out to actually enforce the law against cheap-labor-lobby employers.
Yes, there is hysteria going on, hysteria of the elites for a bad bad bad bad idea.
"
I think the thought is that if CNN, who are biased against President Bush, publish a poll that favors him, it is hard to deny, because they would not fabricate a favorable poll of the President. That is not an inconsistent position"
Nah, this poll helps the liberal agenda. The one thing that will destroy the GOP majority is this massive amnesty ... just as the mini amnesty in 1986 delivered California into Democrat hands in the 1990s, the rest of the country will become Californicated by massive immigration, and formerly Republican states like AZ and TX will turn Democrat in 10-15 years... just like CA. It means also that CA will lurch further into the abyss.
Hagel-Martinez/McCain-Kennedy is a GOP suicide pact: Non-enforcement of the law by simply letting lawbreakers ‘legalize’. Get 100 million new Americans in the next 20 years through expanded amnesties and visa programs. Split the party down the middle, deliver millions of low-income welfare-desiring votes to the Democrats, and turn America leftward by further angering ordinary citizens and making them more ‘protectionist’ which can easily turn into socialist. And what for? Because, in the end, we were afraid to simply ENFORCE THE LAW. A pathetic coda for the law-and-order party's majority.
Your so right; most of the Freepers think the MSM posts are bias. See you later on DU. Great Post!
"The simple fact of the matter is mexican immigrants don't "line up" behind the Democrat party if they vote at all."
My wife is an Asian immigrant and the Democrats do have most immigrant communities in the cities tied in with their 'machines'. (Her experience is from Chicago, but LA and most othe rcities are similar.) Many immigrants are bussed to the polling places to vote lock-step for Democrats. I know. They do, literally, line up, get on the bus, go to the polls, and punch for the Democrats. Having citizens not know English is an advantage for the Democrats as they herd the new sheeple; they have no clue what they are voting for and are told, and believe, absurd lies about the Republicans by the Democrats.
Durbin, Kennedy, Reid, Boxer, Leahy, Hillary Rodham Clinton, etc. are voting their party's interest when they vote for 'legalization' aka amnesty in Hagel/Martinez.
"I disagree. You guys want to hold out the "amnesty is on the way" mantra, without actually DEALING with the issue. Try stopping the senate bill. We can work from there. Do something, rather than whine. How many calls have you made to your senator? How many letters? E-mails? "
I agree. The action is in the Senate and the solution is to contact Senators. Posting on FR just vents but doesn not impact the persuadable leaders to move away from the disaster of Hagel-Martinez and McCain-Kennedy.
2 calls today ...
First to Sen Brownback's office, to tell him I am disappointed he is for Hagel amnesty bill and urge him to change his mind.
Second to Sen Cornyn's office, to encourage him to massively fix the bill or support filibuster of it.
U.S. Senate switchboard:
202-224-3121
NumbersUSA contacts info:
http://www.numbersusa.com/congressinfo/
More to come.
"Well, I may be in the lonely not-so-vocal minority here on FR, but I thought it was a good speech and a good start on a difficult problem. There are those who won't be happy until every single illegal and all their descendants are rooted out and kicked back over the border which is then sealed with a laser fence which zaps to death anyone who crosses it, and, on the other hand, those who won't be happy until every single illegal is registered to vote Democrat."
Do you realize that McCain-Kennedy is pretty much the latter? 10 million on fast track to citizenship.
The "compromise" is to scale that back to a mere ... 8 or 9 million.
"sent e-mails urging them to come up with a realistic solution which preserves our security."
Since amnesty failed utterly and completely in 1986, I hope you mentioned that to them, and told them "realistic" and "amnesty" are incompatible.
"Well, whatever we share---or disagree over---I think EVERYONE can agree that the Senate bill must be stopped. It is an abomination."
I certainly agree.
"This is not amnesty" was Clintonesque. I am ashamed he said that.
Every single 'amnesty' in the past had some 'hoops', and these are pretty minimal. if they want a fine, make it six figures, like $25,000... $2,000 is pathetic. You can spend $400 just for the processing fees for a short-term visa to Russia! ... so $2,000 is like an "amnesty processing fee".
Aren't you glad this Administration listens to us and does respond?
Do you think Gore or Kerry would have given us the time of day?
Cheney was talking this morning about assigning them to building more fencing.
That would keep them out of direct "law enforcement" so they don't run afoul of posse comitatus, but it would certainly be more than window dressing.
Historic trends like migration are very hard to fight. However, it is not foolish to believe that President Bush keeps his word and WILL try to get the Congress to pass these measures and that he WILL enforce them as much as a ponderous executive branch bureaucracy will allow.
The key is funding. You can't enforce laws if Congress doesn't allot sufficient funding for enforcement.
Thanks!
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