Posted on 05/15/2006 4:13:02 PM PDT by devane617
Edited on 05/15/2006 4:38:26 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
I searched but did not see a thread already open for tonights speech. I think this is the most important speech the President will probably make for the remainder of his term.
Mod Note:
This could turn into a whack-a-troll thread. All immigration trolls that would like to participate should post here. It'll be interesting to see if we mods can whack the trolls faster than they can sign up new accounts.
Jim
Bush might say that this is not amnesty but that's no different than calling taxes "contributions" like Clinton did. Reminds me of Orwell's Newspeak
My problem, from your perspective, is that I'm rational.
Have not read all your posts but ........
If the Republican party is so bad (from your viewpoint), how does voting for the democrats help it?
If you should think abandoning the party will "show" them - get a grip. Just how important do you think one vote is?
Seems to me, better republican representatives would come from recruitment and voting them in - not leaving the party and throwing your vote to the democrat candidate. Afterall, they are recruiting the socialistic/communistic person and pushing them to power.
And you are doing all in your power to help them - because you turned your back on their only opponent. I am sure they are salivating every time they can encourage people to abandon the GOP because the GOP is just not good enough.
What a smart ploy - and it is working.
And, just maybe we have the poor representatives we have BECAUSE so many conservatives turn their backs and allow the middle of the road candidates to get pushed forward.
So - all the complaining should be directed at those voters who left the party in earlier times.
What you don't understand you judge to be spin.
As I said before, bye Dick.
Important enough to trigger a prime time speech from the oval office if it's repeated enough times.
Bush's speeach was a disaster.
Anyone that's determined to cross in from Mexico will find a way and they'll keep coming until we crack down on employers for hiring them.
Lots of "studied ignorance" going on around here these days.
The republicans got a warning shot from the pro-lifers back in 2000, and Rove acknowledged it when he admitted they were expecting 4 million more votes than they got.
Looks like they forgot again.
What you don't understand you just ignore. The President was very clear that the illegals currently here will not go to the end of the line. I quoted the man.
(My underline)
LOL!
As I said, what you don't understand, you judge to be spin.
Buenos notchez and Buenos Diaz, "MY Friends, My Friends..."
And some people can't just come out and admit that we're talking amnesty. The fact that there is such a strong attempt to deny the amnesty, gives strong credence to the notion that amnesty really is opposed by a vast majority of the American electorate, and that the President and RNC are attempting to obfuscate to prevent an electoral mess.
Oddly enough, this is what really makes me angry - that the President, rather than come out and call the duck a duck, has chosen to play Clintonian word games. He is better than that! If he were calling it what it is and defending it from that position, he would still have my respect, even I vociferously disagreed with his position.
LTS
All well and good, but compassion must be tempered with reason, must not ignore those who are motivated to take advantage of your compassion and that same reason must be equally concerned with what has created the cause of your need to be compassionate and how will your response affect the cause.
Mexico is not poor because there is something wrong with "Mexicans" or that its land is poor.
Mexico is not advancing economically because its political and business class has intentionally refused to make reforms that would open up and release the economic initiative its people are capable of.
Further, Mexico is using illegal immigration to release domestic pressure towards needed reforms.
The needed reforms would, while helping the people and the economy, require that the ruling political and business elites would lose political and financial protection of their vested interests.
The process of using Mexican migrant labor as mules - exported labor - has become so addictive that one of the current "economic solutions" being discussed in Mexico is to get exported Mexican labor into Spain, for which discussions with Spain were opened this year. A country that is getting its greatest % of foreign exchange from its mules overseas (Mexico - 20+ billion/year) is not a country that is solving its problems. It has converted its human labor into a means of avoiding solutions.
Our "compassion" in the immediate sense is only playing into a bad situation that cries out for solutions IN MEXICO, not here.
By enabling the Mexican addiction to exported labor, we are helping to insure the continuation of the problem, insuring continued need for our "compassion" while failing to assist those who would rather not need to become the exported labor, in need of our compassion.
To tell your self you feel better, feel more moral, is neither compassionate nor reasoned in the long run, when you should be willing to face the causes of the need for your compassion and address those causes, not the symptoms.
Yes, everyone deserves human treatment, at all times, but our compassion must be tempered by reason, not folly.
"President Bush has done more to advance a realistic conservative agenda than any president since Reagan,"
Bwahahahaha. You mean he's more conservative than Bush the Elder and Bill Clinton? Now, that's a tough line to cross.
I propose that we utilize economic, and if necessary, military measures to cause Mexico to quit emptying THEIR prisons into the USA. I never have called for mass deportation. I have called for enforced registration and tracking of alien students, visitors, and laborers. I do call for the deportation of those resident aliens that commit a criminal offense. Not those that commit an administrative error in the current guest worker program (including NAFTA visas). I am not calling for flinging the prison doors open. I am calling for "insourcing" labor to keep the revenue inside of the US, and lowering the taxes on non-offenders. I know, that is a radically conservative notion to have prison farms and manufacturing while offenders learn to work and contribute to society while lowering the tax burden by having non-productive human beings (that are US citizens) become productive. On top of my call for the military overthrow of the Mexican government. And this time we should take the rest of the land. The northern territories that we got last time worked out pretty well. After all, without the New Mexico proving grounds, we never could have nuked Japan. Twice.
Who (not I) suggests deporting 12 million people?
The guest worker program is the worst part of the proposed changes - a time bomb inside a trojan horse. Just look at all the nations now with massive guest worker programs, as either senders of recipients. They are all politically and socially dysfunctional.
Try this for starters:
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/wm1076.cfm
Which is good moral reason why increased enforcement, on this side of the border, needs to concentrate on the employers, not the workers and if the employers start getting the legal maximums in punishment they will quit being the honey attracting the workers.
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