Posted on 05/15/2006 4:13:02 PM PDT by devane617
Edited on 05/15/2006 4:38:26 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
I searched but did not see a thread already open for tonights speech. I think this is the most important speech the President will probably make for the remainder of his term.
Mod Note:
This could turn into a whack-a-troll thread. All immigration trolls that would like to participate should post here. It'll be interesting to see if we mods can whack the trolls faster than they can sign up new accounts.
Jim
""He added that part of the problem is all of the forged documents"
BS
all an employer has to do is contact the Social Security to confirm that the number is valid...which I have done for thirty years!"
Good on you for confirming the ss # is valid - - we wouldn't have such a mess if more employers were like you. That said, you may not have read or heard about the HUGH business in document forgery for illegals. You may not have also READ the bills passed in the 90's - -I won't post the entire law here, but, just so you understand that not ALL employers are to blame (granted, I fully agree some are - - not arguing that point at all):
Thanks to mnehrling for this:
A Clinton era law (INA 274B) made it illegal for employers to ask an employee if the information they provided is 'valid', instead, as long as the employer has an I9, valid information or not, they cannot be prosecuted because they are not responsible for validating the information on the I9.
Basically, if an employer questions an employee 'if they are legal' or if they are providing false ID, they could be sued for 'unfair employment practices'
Sec. 274B. [8 U.S.C. 1324b] (1996)
(a) Prohibition of Discrimination Based on National Origin or Citizenship Status.-
(1) General rule.-It is an unfair immigration-related employment practice for a person or other entity to discriminate against any individual (other than an unauthorized alien, as defined in section 274A(h)(3)) with respect to the hiring, or recruitment or referral for a fee, of the individual for employment or the discharging of the individual from employment-
(A) because of such individual's national origin, or
(B) in the case of a protected individual (as defined in paragraph (3)), because of such individual's citizenship status.
http://www.uscis.gov/lpBin/lpext.dll/inserts/slb/slb-1/slb-20/slb-8468?f=templates&fn=document-frame.htm
Also, Clinton signed the following laws into place.
(INA § 203(b)(2)(B), 8 U.S.C. § 1153(b)(2)(B)) - This law allows foreign nationals- even those who entered illegally, to request/obtain green cards as soon as they are 'caught'. What does this mean? It means that if caught and if they haven't committed a felony (remember, entering the country illegally is only a misdemeanor), they can simply say they would like to apply for a 'green card'-
This law was originally intended to help 'highly qualified' foreign nationals who want to get work permits easier, but the loophole is that the alien (legal or illegal) must be given the opportunity to prove they meet the qualification.
No, most illegals don't qualify for this visa waiver, but, by the time this is 'proven' they have fallen off the radar.
Worst of all is the The Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 (IIRAIRA). Under this law, deportation can be suspended if the illegal alien can prove that they have been in the US 'for a considerable period of time' and has 'good moral character'. Illegal aliens who fall under this are given the opportunity to apply for whatever work visa or asylum they may work for.
In addition, I previously did a bit of research:
I looked at a related law wrt Employment and acceptable forms of ID (274(A). IMHO while some folks are bashing employers (and, in many cases, rightly so) it appears that all they have to do is see a driver's license and/or social security card and they're in compliance with the law. They don't have a responsibility to determine if the forged documents are forged or not (and, in many cases, it would be difficult for them to know). Couple this w the law that re discrimination, there are obviously changes needed.
Sec. 274A. [8 U.S.C. 1324a]
(a) Making Employment of Unauthorized Aliens Unlawful.-
(1) In general.-It is unlawful for a person or other entity-
(A) to hire, or to recruit or refer for a fee, for employment in the United States an alien knowing the alien is an unauthorized alien (as defined in subsection (h)(3)) with respect to such employment, or
(B)(i) to hire for employment in the United States an individual without complying with the requirements of subsection (b) or (ii) if the person or entity is an agricultural association, agricultural employer, or farm labor contractor (as defined in section 3 of the Migrant and Seasonal Agricultural Worker Protection Act), to hire, or to recruit or refer for a fee, for employment in the United States an individual without complying with the requirements of subsection (b).
(2) Continuing employment.-It is unlawful for a person or other entity, after hiring an alien for employment in accordance with paragraph (1), to continue to employ the alien in the United States knowing the alien is (or has become) an unauthorized alien with respect to such employment.
(3) Defense.-A person or entity that establishes that it has complied in good faith with the requirements of subsection (b) with respect to the hiring, recruiting, or referral for employment of an alien in the United States has established an affirmative defense that the person or entity has not violated paragraph (1)(A) with respect to such hiring, recruiting, or referral.
>snip
(B) Documents establishing both employment authorization and identity.-A document described in this subparagraph is an individual's-
(i) United States passport;
(ii) resident alien card, alien registration card, or other document designated by the Attorney General, if the document-
(I) contains a photograph of the individual and such other personal identifying information relating to the individual as the Attorney General finds, by regulation, sufficient for purposes of this subsection,
(II) is evidence of authorization of employment in the United States, and
(III)3/ contains security features to make it resistant to tampering, counterfeiting, and fraudulent use.
(C) Documents evidencing employment authorization.-A document described in this subparagraph is an individual's-
(i) social security account number card (other than such a card which specifies on the face that the issuance of the card does not authorize employment in the United States); or
(ii) other documentation evidencing authorization of employment in the United States which the Attorney General finds, by regulation, to be acceptable for purposes of this section.
(D) Documents establishing identity of individual.-A document described in this subparagraph is an individual's-
(i) driver's license or similar document issued for the purpose of identification by a State, if it contains a photograph of the individual or such other personal identifying information relating to the individual as the Attorney General finds, by regulation, sufficient for purposes of this section; or
(ii) in the case of individuals under 16 years of age or in a State which does not provide for issuance of an identification document (other than a driver's license) referred to in clause (i), documentation of personal identity of such other type as the Attorney General finds, by regulation, provides a reliable means of identification.
>snip
Reference to No National ID Cards:
"c) No Authorization of National Identification Cards.-Nothing in this section shall be construed to authorize, directly or indirectly, the issuance or use of national identification cards or the establishment of a national identification card."
http://www.uscis.gov/lpBin/lpext.dll/inserts/slb/slb-1/slb-20/slb-8198?f=templates&fn=document-frame.htm#slb-act274ah3
Amen. I wake during the night with an urgent need to pray for him.
I couldn't stand President Clinton and always left the room when I saw him on TV, but I would never have let my thoughts be published for the world to see. Like it or not, he was our President and I would have been outraged if someone had tried to harm him.
LOL, my understanding is that the coast guard is planning to call all swimmers by the code name Elian...
Romans 11: 1 I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don't you know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah--how he appealed to God against Israel: 3 "Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me"? 4 And what was God's answer to him? "I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal." 5 So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace. 7 What then? What Israel sought so earnestly it did not obtain, but the elect did. The others were hardened, 8 as it is written: "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes so that they could not see and ears so that they could not hear, to this very day." 9 And David says: "May their table become a snare and a trap, a stumbling block and a retribution for them. 10 May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see, and their backs be bent forever." 11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their fullness bring! 13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I make much of my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15 For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16 If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in." 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. 22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree! 25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. 27 And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins." 28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God's mercy to you. 32 For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
Somebody usually posts a Savage thread. I didn't see it today, but it may be here. Can't tell ya what's on it as I never click on it or turn him on.
I hope to God that was not the reason for it lol. It just seems strange to me. As someone pointed out people can listen to it in their cars, but I rather not have my speech analyzed in the middle of a traffic jam. It just seems people at the White House would think about these things. It might be just a "east coast' mentality and ignorance at work again in Washington.
I say this because Senator Sessions is introducing an amendment that would authorize construction of a fence but only for one traversing a small percentage of the border. Would you suggest that Sen. Sessions has gone soft on illegals?
Well, after reading a couple of posts that Dobbs and Tancredo liked the speech, other freepers are disputing that.
Yep, and that is the real problem is. Conservative voters talk a big game and put the blame on all the Republicans in Congress yet those same voters don't ever stand up and unite and put in only REAL conservatives. So really, the fault with the spineless Republican Congress is with the voters who put them there. That's the real bottom line. You get what you pay for.
OH puhleeze.......that is just a stupid comment. If this is what FR has resorted to, we truly are doomed.
No, darn, missed it. Thanks for the heads up - -maybe he'll be on in the a.m. and/or I'm sure there will be an article and/or thread to his comments.
Dobbs is still a wolf in sheep's clothing. He wants no compromise at all. I heard him tonight on CNN right before the speech. He is for closing the border but he is for total Amnesty. He wants all the illegals to get a Reagan break..nothing like the middle ground the President is looking for.
And this is what puts the lie to GW Bush's "WOT" claims. If he were ever worried about the safety, security, and sovereignty of the US, he would have sealed the borders immediately. It might now have helped to diminish the total illegal population by more than a few million, but it would have been a serious step towards security.
But even now, with the illegal invasion taking center-stage, GW is putting up WAY too little FAR too late.
Clinton sold us out to the Chineese, Bush has sold us out to Mexico....
At least it doesn't appear that we have thousands of mad Chineese marching in OUR streets, screaming anti-American trash, and demanding a significan portion of the US as a return to China... And heck no, I'm in no way defending Bubba....he is a traitor too.
That is what I was informed of. If not a "co-founder" by specific title, he was at least very involved in it's formation and is very active with them and is an ardent supporter of the Minutemen.
Wrong thread? I don't think so...
I'm not sure how anyone could think that Tancredo, much less Dobbs, liked the speech.
I agree with the rest of your 2120 post also. Every good movement has to have a start, and this is a good start. Now if the conservative voters will build on it and remove Republicans who don't have the spine to stand and do the things that most Americans want, which are outlined in this speach.
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