Posted on 05/15/2006 10:39:29 AM PDT by Spiff
Maybe it is because I’m in the middle of reading Ramesh’s tour de force, which utterly shreds popular canards, particularly the false claim that we must either keep Roe v. Wade or make all abortions illegal. But I can't help observing that a similar canard – also being used to great effect – is this blatant nonsense from immigration enthusiasts that our stark choice is either a guest worker program for illegal immigrants or mass deportations of 12 million people.
That is absurd. Illegal immigrants are in violation of the law, and we should want them to stop, which means we should want them to leave. Good policy would encourage them to do so. But we are under no obligation to deport them.
We should make it harder for illegals to get in, and be clear to those already here that staying is going to be more unpleasant – because employers are going to be prosecuted, immigrants who commit state and federal crimes are going to be jailed then deported, and all our sparse processing resources are going to be dedicated to those who are following the existing rules for legal immigration.
But whatever we decide to do, we do not have to deport anyone, much less everyone. The impossibility of immediately deporting all illegals is in no way a justification for allowing law-breakers to profit from their lawlessness.
The case in favor of doing nothing about the status of illegal aliens is clear and powerful: any moves in their direction would undermine the rule of law, encourage more unlawful immigration, and jeopardize national security. To be persuasive, the contrary case for doing something would have to outweigh that.
Such a case has not been made. Whatever arguments it may have in its favor, though, the suggestion that legitimizing illegals would obviate what would otherwise be the massive burden of 12 million deportations is a complete fiction.
ping
the pubbies have a problem. their choices like those of the people on flight 73 are between certain death and near certain death.
If they allow the illegals citizenship--the illegal/legals will do what they did after 1986: vote democratic and tip the country to a democratic majority as they have done in california and that because after 1993 in California many mexicans began voting in california to preserve gov bennies--for which the dems excel. There won't be social security benefit for Americans of retirement age from the illegals/legals because they will suck up what ever they put into the economy--as they are now. They won't yield a net gain. ie they won't pay for anyone's social security.
Everyone but everyone who has ever been to any government building that dispenses anything from health care to drivers lisences can't help but notice that the place is swamped with foreigners. Basically the welfare state system set up in the 1960's is being totally gamed by foreigners.
What the president looks like he is about to do will demoralize the republicans bringing on the effects of the 1992 & 1996 elections. There may not even be a third party but when W builds in a reversal of the fortunes of the war of 1848--it creates a kind of passivity in people when they see their leaders commit them to the status of world historical losers.
If Bush decides to put up a wall and expel the illegals then there is a chance to preserve Republican majorities. It would be helpful to promise that the USA will kill the cost of water desalination and transport so as to make it economically possible to turn the deserts 1000 miles from any desert seacoast -- green. (this would increase the habitable size of the USA by a third and double the habitable size of Mexico.)This work is already ongoing and will be accomplished in five years or so--or in about the same time frame that GM promises to have a cost effective fuel cell car. For GM as it is for the GOP its do or die time.
The chief difference between the pubbies current predicament and flight 93 is that they are currently in the cockpit. (if you presume that bush is a republican or at least more of a republican than a bilderburger.)
The point here is that if these guys cannot act like loyal americans at least they can act like republicans. ie people who have a stake in the continuity of the republican party.
Since they are not doing this the republicans in the white house and senate all need to be smacked on both sides of the face and kicked in the but.
When they can't get a job, they'll take themselves home to Mexico. They came here for the money, and will leave when they can't get it. Maybe some charities could charter buses;>)
"But I can't help observing that a similar canard – also being used to great effect – is this blatant nonsense from immigration enthusiasts that our stark choice is either a guest worker program for illegal immigrants or mass deportations of 12 million people."
Of course if this is a canard its just not coming from the "immigration enthusiasts". I talk to many people on that are are not illegal immgration enthusiasts who want a Govt policy to do just that.
Don't forget that the 12 million illegals who'll get amnesty have 50 million relatives in Mexico who'll be able to come over legally via family reunification.
Once the 12 million illegals get legal status, they can legally bring over their families (parents, spouses, kids, etc.). Assuming on average each illegal has a wife and 2 kids back home in Mexico, the number of new citizens is closer to 50 million than 12 million.
You mean we can't even do what Mexico has done: deport 12 million+ Mexicans?
It is not a canard, it's a dream.
ping.
This is absolute BS. These lying sacks of excrement whine about how nothing can be done. I live in China. They control their visas. You don't have the right kinda visa - you go home. If you don't - you're in deep shittaki. Major fines to get out. These people that lie about the impossibility of deportation are lying through their enabling teeth. It isn't hard. It isn't complicated. You just have to be willing to do some very SIMPLE straightforward things to shutdown illegal hiring. Believe me, nobody stays anywhere long when they can't make a living. Perhaps these dipfriks need to come here to see how it's done.
Don't listen to these treasonous bastards about the impossibility of enforcement.
Bush is going on TV tonight to address an issue where I believe he has made one of his biggest mistakes -- illegal immigration. I can't say yet whether he will correct that mistake, or amplify it.
It's impossible to credibly claim security from terrorism when our southern border remains porous and thousands who we can't identify cross it daily.
It's hard to maintain the rule of law when we knowingly allow tens of millions to violate it daily.
It's difficult to maintain the character of our society when we accept tens of millions who, first, have no intention of becoming full members of it and, then, demand we conform it to meet their wishes.
If Bush does not support a formidable, secure barrier across our entire southern frontier, any use of the National Guard will be viewed as a sham and a fraud -- nothing other than window dressing and hollow pandering. It will infuriate conservatives, not placate them.
Immigration must be limited to those who want to become Americans in every way and are willing to obey all our laws, not just the ones they find convenient. Our policies should be designed to favor those with skills, capital, and entrepreneurial spirit. It should allow significant numbers of immigrants, but favor those that will provide the greatest benefit to our nation's economy and society. It should not reward those whose principal motivation is to receive more generous social welfare benefits than are now available in their home nations.
The current policies of rewarding those who come illegally and allowing them to bring family members who consume large amounts of government services are just plain stupid. Watching elected Democrats and Republicans try to outdo each other in pandering to create and attract large numbers of potential new voters is sickening.
Elected officials of both parties are not only turning their backs upon, but spitting in the faces, of their base constituencies. They are beneath contempt, and we should give them what they so richly deserve.
This may or may not be true, but:
If France is any indication of those who immigrate despite prior knowledge of lack of employment opportunities, I would say it is not true.
Start putting employers in jail for 6 months per conviction and the jobs will be gone after the first. The offenders companies seized and sold at auction would benefit those playing by the rules as illegal aided underpriced competitors go by the wayside.
I'd also stop the flow of money to Mexico. No more wire transfers without proper documentation. We derive no benefit from Mexico's second largest industry as US dollars flow from America to Mexico.
S*%T! It's the incompetence!
If you believe that the President wants to "hand over the country", you are seriously mistaken. Oh, and welcome to FR.
I feel if we crack down and start to vigorously enforce the laws, with real consequences, the Illegal Immigration invasion will slow to a trickle.
If we enforced our immigration laws the way Mexico does, we wouldn't have this problem to begin with.
sw
I can. From the WP:
"...support of Border Patrol capabilities on a temporary basis by National Guard personnel," said White House spokeswoman Maria Tamburri...." He hopes to obtain support of his base on a tempoaray basis, say, until mid-November of this year.
"Officials suggested their mission would be to play a supporting role by providing intelligence"...while hoping that the American people don't have any and won't be able to see through this window dressing.
The United States will become more and more an Hispanic country in the next 50 years. Because the Hispanics have been allowed in such large numbers, some even legally, in such a short period of time, our culture is continually becoming more bi-lingual in practice, if not in law. As in Southern California. English is NOT the official language of the US (although it should be).
Although the Illegal Immigration issue is finally on the public radar, and under discussion by law makers, the ‘damage’ has been done. Hispanics will easily surpass 50% of the population in the Southwest, and are already fast-approaching 15% in the the country as a whole. Given the huge numbers, which dwarf all previous immigration, and the short time-frame, I don't think assimilation is going to be significant in the short term.
For example, in the country as a whole, they far outnumber African-Americans … and any other easily identifiable ethnic group…
These are the facts:
If illegal immigration were to end tonight, it is still they who are going to change us. Not the other way around. Sorry. We took notice too late. Our culture isn’t exactly doomed, it’s just going to change more quickly than you can imagine, more than likely, but not necessarily, for the worse. After all, if I had known what MTV was going to do to this country 50 years ago, I would have tried to stop it … but now it’s too late! Ditto, uncontrolled illegal Hispanic immigration.
In re "The Speech:"
Our leaders will pass new laws, and might even enforce some of the old ones. They definitely will be talking really tough. But at the same time, they are trying to figure out how to get the Hispanics into their voting booths and already throw Spanish phrases into their speeches. That’s because this is a done deal. It’s over. Hell, the Democrats are already voting them, thanks to Motor Voter.... and just plain fraud. The will, and the leadership, to end the situation are just not there.
Of course, now we have to put the fire out: Get control of the border, end birth citizenship for children of illegals, fine employers, deport criminals, end welfare to illegals, etc. (Everybody knows WHAT to do ... but our leaders will not perform for many reasons ... few of them even remotely defensible.)
No matter what happens from now on, America as you and I know it, and might like it to remain, has been irretrievably changed. We have been dealt a very bad hand, how we're supposed to play it is a mystery to me!
Bienvenido a nuestro país nuevo?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.