Posted on 05/15/2006 5:48:16 AM PDT by areafiftyone
So magically we have gone from the capacity to deport 1.5 million per year to 3 million per year. Wonderful since it would occur in the face of ever increasing and intense legal challenges by the ACLU and other advocacy groups. But I guess things just work out for the best in your world because you want them to.
Again a nice attempted dodge on the "legitamcy" issue. I was not addressing the legitamacy of the aliens, but rather the legitamcy of the premise that you can deport 11 million. Still haven't seen you address that on a practical basis.
I question whether you can control the borders without having control of the illegal population already within the country. If there is a community of illegals for them to enter, the motivated ones will find a way to get in and join it. I am a strong proponent of controlling the borders, but you cannot control the borders without gaining control of the illegal community within the borders. You can't do that if deportation is the primary solution.
Probably not against Tom. I meant republicans in general.
susie
It makes us sound lazy and elitist.
>I was a bus boy and a janitor when I was in High School. I couldn't get those jobs today. When my son is ready for his first entry level job, where he is supposed to build on his work ethic and start learning work skills, those jobs simply won't be available to him.<
Teenagers who are willing to work can still find employment.The Chic-Fillets of the world would much prefer to hire a smart well spoken teenager than somone who can not speak or comprehend Englis.
The problem has been the economy the last few summers has not provided advanced employment for college students.This has driven them into competing with the younger workers for the entry level jobs.
What's the point? If you won't protect the homeland when there is a "war on terror" and wide open borders, the rest is a big waste of soldier's lives.
No thanks.
Homeland first, rest of the world second.
Note to Pres Bush: You are wrong. Give them 90 days to exit the country. If they do not, they will be spending 10 years in jail - no bail, no parole. And if any employer hires an illegal - knowingly or unknowingly - they get one year in jail and $10,000 fine for each violation.
Trust me - it will work.
I think if you will tolerate employment of these people, you must, in fairness, legalize them.
I think YOU are being unrealistic about the deterrent effect of proper employer enforcement, though.
Let's say, for example, that years ago I had hired an illegal nanny (just pretend). Let's say that the hypothetical me had said, "I won't get caught, and if I do, I'll pay the taxes and the fine".
Now, strict cost-beneft analysis says this works, especially if you want a culturally-appropriate nanny.
Now, suppose there was a 1/200 chance of me, many years ago, going to prison for 18 months for hiring this hypothetical nanny.
There is NO CHANCE WHATSOEVER that I would have done so. NONE.
I think that if 100 employers were sent to prison (this would not be hard at all), the problem would be over.
I waitressed, cooked and bussed tables to work my way through college. That option is no longer open to my children because around here illegals have all those jobs. Restaurants which are hiring even put out big banners saying they speak Spanish.
"And it only takes a few election cycles for the newly legalized to start voting Democrat."
I wonder how many of them would actually become citizens - throughout the "protests" and "boycotts", not many talked about wanting it - they were just demanding the rights citizens get. I don't think many of thought of the implications beyond the goodies the libs promise them, and the idea of getting the INS off their back. Do you really think they want to see 40-50% of their incomes disapear overnight? To have to stand in line with the rest of us? Pay taxes? Pay for healthcare? Pay for education?
Fox has on more than one occasion spoken of an open border for seasonal migration, that sure doesnt sound like citizenship to me.
So, dirtboy, are you saying that if NO legislation was being considered, there wouldn't be a hoopla about this?
It is a completely innecessary phrase "jobs Americans won't do". It gains absolutely nothing in a political sense and it makes one wonder why he uses it
Yeah, especially as you(hostage) go to your job tomorrow picking asparagus.
You all are so freaking transparent, that sometimes you all could make nancy pelosi blush about phoniness.
They have their old professions to fall back on, though...
I'm sorry, I forgot, Jan. of '04 on an immigration thread, there appeared to be a purge. This is not a new phnomenom on FR. It's been building. Americans saw what was at stake during the millions of illegals marching down our streets demanding citizenship.
What you said is the plain and simple truth.. but your not supposed to do that, your supposed to just shut up and take it according to all who want to make excuses for this massive sellout of Americans.
The original (and most successful) protest in Los Angeles was organized by Hispanic media in opposition to HR 4437. It caught everybody by surprise, including the LA Times and other regular media channels. It was designed to oppose Republicans and galvanize support for Dems. There wasn't any master strategy in terms of "dividing" the GOP.
Btw, I'm probably one of the few people on this board that regularly hunts down and explores SoCal ethnic neighborhoods in search of good eats (my wife is addicted to a certain dish called 'Molcajete'). We're almost always the only anglos people in these joints.
The point of this digression? HR 4437 dominates the billboards, including advertisements for Hispanic talk radio, etc. It's a very big deal for them - straight from the heart. I for one do not believe that there's any puppet masters manipulating both them and the GOP.
I'm just looking for a little honesty from the government. A simple *pro* *con* chart would work. And include everything, not just selective spin points. Like money contributed to our treasury, along with crime statistics. The numbers are there. For everything, both for and against. Then take a rational, realistic look at the bottom line. Numbers do not lie. But politicians..
Actually, I used to me more neutral on the issue until the anti-illegal immigration camp made the case as to how important the issue was.
Now I know that there were occasional discussions about it on FR, but for goodness sake, Bush campaigned about this in both 2000 and 2004 and there was hardly a peep here! So why has this become such an all-out war on FR and within the party?
Mainly because it is now being actively legislated. Before, it was just a proposal - and back then, folks were saying we needed to secure the borders and hold off on any amnesty. But the threat of legislation tends to bring out folks on all sides - we didn't see hundreds of thousands of illegals in the street 18 months ago, either.
For example, if tonight the President calls for first securing the border and then a guest worker program next year, how many will simply say "too late, he won't enforce it, he doesn't mean it, etc?"
Oh, some will, because Bush hasn't done a very good job on both border security and internal enforcement. If he outlines a serious proposal to improve border security and defers his guest worker proposal, that will be good enough for me - but I will also be looking to see if he follows through on it.
Never mind that, the Mexicans in the streets are all carrying "Down with Bush" signs.
Bush won't have to wait 100 years for these people to become Democrats, they're Democrats RIGHT NOW.
You are confusing two issues. If we have no Republican majority we cannot move the country to the right AT ALL. If we Keep the majority, we can forestall Some of the illegal voting that the dems hope to use to influence elections. If we keep the majority, perhaps the conservative message [personal responsibility] will appeal to new Legal American citizens. People who think that Bush advocates instant amnesty/citizenship/voting rights and think that the correct way to stop this is to bash Bush are not looking down the road at the spectre of Dem control of Congress and White House.
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