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To: Ichneumon
Biogenesis and evolution necessarily work via different processes (ask for an explanation if you don't understand why), and thus are independent subjects -- one does not stand or fall depending on the success or failure of the other,...

You're serious? Evolution does not depend on the success or failure of biogenesis? Um, if biogenesis fails, there would be no life to evolve. There has to be a connection. You meant something less obvious than what was stated?

68 posted on 05/15/2006 6:40:07 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom; Ichneumon; Dimensio
Evolution does not depend on the success or failure of biogenesis? Um, if biogenesis fails, there would be no life to evolve.

That is simplistic. Live is unquestionably here.

The method by which life started is independent of the theory of evolution. Here is a good illustration, from a post by Dimensio:

I submit five hypothesis regarding the origin of the first life forms.

If, as you say, common descent "rests squarely on a specific view of the origin of life", then only one of the above hypothesis can be true for common descent to have occured. Please identify which of the five must be true for common descent to have occured, and explain why any two of the other options would prevent common descent from occuring.

From a post by Dimensio here.
69 posted on 05/15/2006 7:12:52 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Stupidity is the only universal capital crime; the sentence is death--Heinlein)
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To: metmom; Coyoteman
[Biogenesis and evolution necessarily work via different processes (ask for an explanation if you don't understand why), and thus are independent subjects -- one does not stand or fall depending on the success or failure of the other,...]

You're serious? Evolution does not depend on the success or failure of biogenesis? Um, if biogenesis fails, there would be no life to evolve. There has to be a connection. You meant something less obvious than what was stated?

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I meant that *explanations* of evolution and abiogenesis don't stand or fall together. I was using "abiogenesis" as a shorthand for "the field of science which deals with the origin of life" or "the theory of the origin of life", not the actual origin itself.

As you correctly point out, evolution wouldn't have much to work with if life hadn't first originated. ;-)

What I meant is that evolutionary biology explains how living things change over time regardless of where or how life originated -- if various theories of natural biogenesis turn out to be wrong and instead life was, say, planted here by aliens, that wouldn't invalidate what we know of how (and by what process) life has changed once it got here.

Similarly, if we someday discovered something horribly wrong in our understanding of evolution, it wouldn't help or hurt any existing knowledge we had gained (or hypotheses we had about) the original formation/arrival of life itself.

83 posted on 05/16/2006 2:44:37 AM PDT by Ichneumon (Ignorance is curable, but the afflicted has to want to be cured.)
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