NSA Building Giant Database of Americans' Phone Calls, Newspaper Reports

Fox News ^ | May 11, 2006 | AP

[TexasPatriot8]

No kidding. I'd rather my taxes go for monitoring possible terrorist activity than measuring cow farts and how much methane they release into the atmosphere, or wasting billions a year educating illegals kids in our schools, or billions a year spent on health care for illegals, and all that money is tax payer money and we're not getting a stinking bit of return on it, and it's infuriating that the poeple so bent out of shape at this NSA program, don't seem to mind one bit the $70+ BILLION a year the illegals cost our system that we get no return from. Outrageous.

The cost of immigration to the American taxpayer in 1997 was a NET (after subtracting taxes immigrants pay) $70 BILLION a year, [Professor Donald Huddle, Rice University].

The terrorists don't cost us that much domestically, they just kill us, but even so, we better not dare monitor phone logs that might finger some of the islamic nazis before they murder a bunch of people. I see crazy people, and they oppose this NSA program.

[longtermmemmory]

IOW the NSA is taking 50 year old technology and reconstructing phone trees.

duh. connecting the dots.

This is a hit piece.

The leaker AND THE REPORTER should be arrested.

[TexasPatriot8]

Heh heh. :)

[HawaiianGecko]

"BIG TIME SO WHAT???" I'm not calling anyone that I wouldn't admit to publicly, just like I'm not saying anything to anyone I call that I wouldn't admit to publicly.

While I agree with your direction in a general manner, you are oversimplifying the issue by assuming that only criminals have a reason for phone privacy. I make many calls that require secrecy.  Every hear of industrial espionage?  I used to be part of executive management for a public company and I can assure you that phone calls to directors being recorded and leaked could and would have huge ramifications in the market.

Now concerning this article, phone calls are not being recorded only the phone numbers and it is not "reasonable to believe" that a record of the numbers dialed is private.  The courts have determined time after time that you have a reasonable expectation of privacy to your phone calls, hence, warrants are required to tap and record them, but not access to phone logs.

This article is simply the left trying to demagogue the issue of the Terrorist Surveillance Program into something else. They already know the public is in favor of the TSP big time and are losing the argument in spades because it actually involves NON-DOMESTIC phone calls, so they are desperately trying to change the issue to domestic before the senate confirmation hearing on General Hayden.

 

[ruschpa]

How convenient that his comes out right before Hayden goes in front of Congress for his confirmation hearings.

Someone did this to screw him over...guaranteed.

[TexasPatriot8]

That would be the ONE case that I could see it being a problem, and yours is the only argument that holds any water. Confidential conversations of a corporate nature, i.e.; industrial espionage, like you mentioned, is probably the only valid instance where there would be a problem. But like pointed out, in daring to state the facts that the article tries to ignore, actual phone calls aren't recorded, it's just phone logs that are being recorded. Like you said, this is just a bunch of libs grasping at straws. It's all so stupid because the overwhelming majority of Americans do not oppose programs like this or the NSA wiretap program, which was General Hayden's brainchild, which frankly makes me like him even more as DCI. And from what I've heard from people who know him, if libs think they had it rough while Goss was DCI, they're going to slit their wrists when Hayden gets in there and starts looking for heads to whack off.

[TexasPatriot8]

If someone leaked this to try and block Hayden's confirmation as DCI then it further illustrates how out of touch they are with real America, because 7 of 10 Americans don't mind this sort of thing, and if this is the democrats reason for opposing his nomination, there will be more people calling from democrat States telling their Senators "you better confirm this guy" then there will be people calling from Republican States telling their Senators "you better sink this guy". Most Americans have no problem with this kind of program, and the media knows it which is why largely they have laid off the NSA wiretapping thing because it's been made clear most Americans have no problem with it, as shown by the lib media's own polls, which couldn't gin up much opposition to the program.

[ElPatriota]

THAT is spot on right. I very much appreciate your common sense rational comment. You clearly "get it". :) Thank you..

Thanks :)), on second thought... just don't tell my wife!!...:) or....well... she can be... :)

[Hoodat]

AMERICAblog just bought General Wesley Clark's cell phone records for $89.95

ROFLMAO!!!

Looks like the MSM just got caught (again) trying to deceive the American Public. (And, yes, that includes FoxNews). YahooNews is the only place I saw where the word "records" was included after "phone call" in the story title.

[HawaiianGecko]

How convenient that his comes out right before Hayden goes in front of Congress for his confirmation hearings.  Someone did this to screw him over...guaranteed.

That may be true, but in my opinion the Democrats know that someone, Feingold for sure and even Republicans will bring up the Terrorist Surveillance Program during the General Hayden hearings.  They also know that they will be beaten severely over this issue as the American public is in favor of this program by 3:1 or maybe it's 4:1 (I don't remember).

This gives them a diversion or more properly a segue into something that sounds icky at least and illegal at best.  I'd bet most people think their phone logs are private when they simply are not.  We need to keep in mind that the vast majority of the American public doesn't delve deeply into an issue like this. They simply remember in November that something that sounds like 1984 was going on back in May.

I don't think it's designed to derail Hayden, it's designed to give them an issue concerning privacy. They have milked the abortion "privacy" issue to the point it doesn't work for them anymore and they lost their first attempt at replacing that issue with the NSA Spying bull-o-knee. This is their second attempt and if Tony Snow makes a big deal out of this in the W/H press briefing today, the administration can smack this one out of the ballpark quickly.

 

[ndt]

"there is nothing in the Constitution that even remotely or vaguely guarantees that the government can't conduct non-invasive measures to guarantee the safety and security of the country"

Assuming you skip over the first and forth amendments. As for "non-invasive" that is highly debatable, it is as "non-invasive" as the feds sitting outside your house and registering everyone entering and leaving without having any probable cause to do so. That IMO is very invasive.

"Further, in a time of war, the government is authorized to take whatever measures necessary to guarantee the safety and security of the country and its people."

Incorrect. leeway is given, but short of martial law being declared, the law still applies.

" Sometimes this civil libertarian crap goes way too far."

Spoken like a true liberal.

"The NSA isn't trying to take my guns away."

You might want to pull out that copy of the constitution you carry and read it again. The second amendment is only one of many items written in there.

[coladirienzi]

In the four and a half years since 9/11:

No jihadi has fired an RPG at any military or police vehicle here in the US.

No jihadi has blown up a car bomb in the midst of a bunch of Cheeseheads tailgating before a Packer's game, or indeed, anywhere else in the country.

No jihadi has set off a single IED anywhere in the entire country.

Tons of drugs and millions of Mexicans just waltz over the border all the time, but we are to believe that the govt. has apprehended EVERY SINGLE jihadi, that meant us harm here in America.

If you were a jihadi leader would you rather: A) Kill a bunch of Muslims in Iraq, or B) kill a bunch of Crusaders and Jews here in the Great Satan?

Either the jihadi leadership is totally incompetent, or they have been made out to be a whole lot more big and bad than they really are.

[cyberaxe]

.....oh please.....

.....first.....

.....it is as "non-invasive" as the feds sitting outside your house and registering everyone entering and leaving without having any probable cause to do so.....

.....that aint cost effective, if they were willing to pay the cost,they'd have probable cause.....

.....running a bunch of numbers through a computer is cost effective.....

.....people would start to talk if the feds were outside my home(lol).....

.....they got everybody's phone records.....

Incorrect. leeway is given, but short of martial law being declared, the law still applies.

.....what law?.....

.....you mean to tell me that somewhere out there.....

.....some congresscritter thought that one day.....

.....a big evil gov dept would want to collect phone records to look into patterns that might give clues about terrorist.....

.....and.....

.....that somebody with nothing else to do except worry about hypothetical losses of liberty might gripe.....

.....so.....

.....they wrote a law?.....

[piceapungens]

If Pres Bush worked this hard to monitor the activities of illegal aliens then we would all be in a lot better shape.

[cyberaxe]

.....there aint much difference in the cause and effect of both of these problems.....

.....terrorist.....

.....they use the libertarian "don't violate my privacy" cry to infiltrate our country and plan bad things.....

.....illegal aliens.....

.....they use the leftist "this is America, we all have entitlements" cry to hang out and use up our resources.....

.....and here we are.....

[Paradox]

People who quote the Founding Fathers need to read some biographies and more history. They might be surprised to find out how their heros REALLY felt and acted.

[liberty_lvr]

Oooh boy, that's some powerful argument you have there. You sure have me convinced!

Oh, wait...how many of those soft-target attacks took place before 9/11 in the US?

None?

Well, it must have been because the muzzies were our best chums until the eeeeeevil chimp made them hate us with that whole useless Iraq invasion thing...right?

Uh-huh, got it. How about you go back to your X-Box and leave the thinking to the adults.

My gawd, where do you pinheads come from??

[Savage Beast]

No thanks, Steve. Tigers are not a problem for most of us. Terrorism is. And thanks to President Bush, 9/11 has not been repeated--and the fight against them has not taken place in the United States.

[microgood]

Another good saying, but hardly applicable to this situation. It's even more annoying because all the people whining about his this is unconstitutional and a violation of civil rights, if there was an attack that killed thousands, and it was proven that it could have been prevented with this very kind of subtle non-invasive surveillance, and those killed in the attack were the families of those against such activities, suddenly, they'd want heads to roll because "the powers at be didn't do all they could". Supreme hypocrisy.

I hear you on that. But my post was actually responding to your statement on drug testing which is extremely demeaning and the first step toward a total and complete police state. If you will pee on command there is nothing you will not do for the state, including all the bad things we read about in history books.