Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Ethanol fumes
The Washington Times ^ | 5-10-06 | Ben Lieberman

Posted on 05/10/2006 12:31:43 PM PDT by JZelle

It seems like an easy fix. Oil prices have hit record highs. Ethanol, a gasoline additive, can both stretch our supplies of oil and ease air pollution. And best of all, it's a corn-based product. Although America imports nearly two-thirds of its oil, it grows all the corn it needs and more. So all lawmakers have to do is require that gasoline contain a given percentage of ethanol, and our gas-price problems won't be as bad. Or so the theory goes. The problem is, we've been doing this for years, and it's not working so well. In fact, it's part of the reason gasoline prices are so high.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government
KEYWORDS: energy; ethanol; gasprices; mtbe; rfg
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-6061-77 next last
We're from the government, and we're here to help!
1 posted on 05/10/2006 12:31:45 PM PDT by JZelle
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: JZelle

Yep, and we're glad you're here..........


2 posted on 05/10/2006 12:32:48 PM PDT by roaddog727 (eludium PU36 explosive space modulator)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: JZelle

Ethanol or biodiesel technology is a fraud. Everyone wants to jump on the bandwagon and push this stuff. And it's not cheap. The problem is that we're still dependent on a nonrenewable resource imported from unstable govts. Surely, there's technology out there that would eliminate being dependent on gasoline. Where is it?


3 posted on 05/10/2006 12:34:30 PM PDT by lilylangtree
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: JZelle
Side note:

I'm pretty sure that MN uses a higher percent of Ethynol in their gas blends during our cold months - benefit of helping prevent gasline freezing I think. BUT I noticed that after the switch to "summer blends" I can get over 50 more miles out of a tank of gas! If I have to refill more often-use more gas, how is Ethynol helpful?
4 posted on 05/10/2006 12:36:11 PM PDT by mikethevike (We could use a little global warming up here in MN)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: JZelle

"The Wall Street Journal is urging Washington to discard the 54-cent-per-gallon tariff on imported ethanol. This tariff is effectively a subsidy for corn-based ethanol produced in the USA. Yet, producing ethanol from corn is highly inefficient and consumes 1 unit of energy for each 1.3 units of energy that burning ethanol provides. By contrast, ethanol derived from sugarcane (which is the sole source of ethanol in Brazil) yields 8.3 units of energy. Sugercane is about 7 times more efficient than corn. Some studies even show that corn yields only 0.8 unit of energy, resulting in a net loss of energy."


5 posted on 05/10/2006 12:39:02 PM PDT by Ben Mugged (If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you are reading it in English, thank a soldier.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: JZelle

It's a distribution problem. Brazil has a huge excess of fuel-grade ethanol, which they would be willing to export, and do it a lot more cheaply than the US farmers can raise the corn and Archer-Daniels-Midland can get it processed here.

Trouble is, the US government slaps a tariff on this fuel-grade ethanol, and it is not available to augment our supplies. The whole ethanol scheme is an indirect subsidy to corn growers in this country.


6 posted on 05/10/2006 12:40:52 PM PDT by alloysteel
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lilylangtree; JZelle
Ethanol or biodiesel technology is a fraud.

Come on now. Just last week I read about an entrepeneur in South America who wants to convert tropical rain forests into palm oil plantations as a source of biodiesel.

7 posted on 05/10/2006 12:41:57 PM PDT by Paleo Conservative
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: lilylangtree

Who says oil is non renewable? There are plenty of studies and reports indicating that it is a renewing energy source. The Russians have been saying this going back to at least the 1920's.

My only guess why there isn't more study in the US done on this is that the oil companies want to maintain the illusion of a finite quantity expiring at an unknown date in the future. Regardless what the reality of the situation is.


8 posted on 05/10/2006 12:42:06 PM PDT by SFC Chromey (We are at war with Islamofascism)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: JZelle
What about high pop-corn prices?

Have you seen the cost of pop-corn lately?

It's enought to make me switch to boiled peanuts.

(...come on OFST)

9 posted on 05/10/2006 12:44:19 PM PDT by TexasCajun
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SFC Chromey

World Net Daily did an article about this several years ago. It was also posted on FR. Basically says that the Earth's rotation churns out a continous supply of oil.


10 posted on 05/10/2006 12:44:35 PM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist (FR's most controversial FReeper)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: SFC Chromey

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38645


11 posted on 05/10/2006 12:45:41 PM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist (FR's most controversial FReeper)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: mikethevike
There is less energy available from ethanol versus gasoline; ~ 60% of gasoline.

A 10%/90% blend here in Colorado but only to reduce emissions. Ethanol pollutes less.
12 posted on 05/10/2006 12:52:00 PM PDT by dhs12345
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Ben Mugged

"Some studies even show that corn yields only 0.8 unit of energy, resulting in a net loss of energy."

The problem is that the 'some studies' are all done by one guy at Cornell whose other expressed opinions are all of the '70s-era "population bomb" crud rehashed.

Search on "david pimental" and watch what ELSE he does when he's not talking down ethanol.

Apart from this one guy the consensus opinion is about 1.3 units of energy out for 1.0 units of energy in for corn ethanol as the rest of your quote states:

"consumes 1 unit of energy for each 1.3 units of energy that burning ethanol provides."

It's also informative to go look up how many units of energy it takes to get one unit of oil out of the ground. The ratio is *always* less than 1 in this case (because there's no new energy input into the process). A 1.3/1 ratio is actually very efficient by comparison; it's essentially capturing new energy (from the sun) which becomes plants which we convert into a fuel.





13 posted on 05/10/2006 12:55:36 PM PDT by No.6 (www.fourthfightergroup.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: TexasCajun

Guessing that scientists will be able to create a genetically engineered plant that is perfect for ethanol production. Much more efficient. Engineered yeast, too for better yields.

High fuel prices are driving research -- the free market system at work.


14 posted on 05/10/2006 12:55:49 PM PDT by dhs12345
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: lilylangtree

A ton of corn will produce approx 80 gallons of ethanol. At todays prices ($2.40 a bu for corn) the cost of producing ethanol should be around $1.00 gallon, not including labor.

However, ethanol on the commodities exchange is $2.80 a gallon. Seems to me that something smells.


15 posted on 05/10/2006 12:56:35 PM PDT by Lokibob (Spelling and typos are copyrighted. Please do not use.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: SFC Chromey

"Who says oil is non renewable? There are plenty of studies and reports indicating that it is a renewing energy source. The Russians have been saying this going back to at least the 1920's. "

It's quite possible, and I myself put some stock in the 'abiotic' theory, but it is the minority opinion among people who try and find sources of oil for a living.


16 posted on 05/10/2006 12:57:03 PM PDT by No.6 (www.fourthfightergroup.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: dhs12345

Thanks - that answers my mileage question, which has been a curiosity since I noticed. And thanks for not correcting my initial spelling of Ethanol ;-)


17 posted on 05/10/2006 12:57:06 PM PDT by mikethevike (We could use a little global warming up here in MN)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: JZelle

How about we try something different for a change? Let's let the market deliver energy of a variety of sorts at the best price it can deliver? Let's remove or reduce tariffs on foreign energy, drill in the US and surrounding waters, reduce regulations so new refineries will be built, cut the number of special formulas required by government regulation, etc. Build nukes if the market will bear, and don't if it won't cover the full cost of the technology. Prizes and competitions can help (the DARPA model), but let's not repeat what we did with NASA and create a bureaucracy.


18 posted on 05/10/2006 12:59:09 PM PDT by RKV ( He who has the guns, makes the rules.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: JZelle
This is similar to the WSJ article posted here yesterday - Congress mandates that MBTE be replaced by Ethanol, and then the tariffs that Congress placed on foreign Ethanol makes oil prices rise.

Thank you, Congress...

19 posted on 05/10/2006 12:59:16 PM PDT by topher (Let us return to old-fashioned morality - morality that has stood the test of time...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: JZelle

Yup and as you can see..ther are the mindless posts that say we CANT/IT CANT be done.

We will not only switch to other types of fuels, we will do it and do it soon. The sooner the better..with or without big brother. Gas hits 5 bucks a gallon those who are howling about "cant", will, and will in a split second.


20 posted on 05/10/2006 12:59:59 PM PDT by crz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-6061-77 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson