[Jacquerie]

I feel the same way toward Bonds. Twelve years ago I saw him play at Candlestick and was awed by his easy athleticism. For years he was a minor god to me. He did not need juice to set records!

Now, I despise him for what he did to the Barry Bonds I knew.

[Wallaby]

He did not need juice to set records!

Actually, no. He did need juice to set these records.

[MikefromOhio]

He did not need juice to set records!

Yes he did. He never would've hit 73 homers in 2001 without the juice. He never would have approached the 660 homers that Willie Mays hit without the juice. It just was not going to happen.

A great player to be sure, a surefire Hall of Famer without the roids, he was going to be a 500-500 guy with an outside shot at being the first ever 600 HRs - 600 SBs guy, but the roids made him so big that he stopped stealing bases.

[Ditto]

Twelve years ago I saw him play at Candlestick and was awed by his easy athleticism.

Before that, I watched his first five seasons in Pittsburgh and saw athletic talent for sure, wrapped in a body devoted to self, not a team. He's has always been about Barry's numbers, not his team's.

It's no accident he doesn't have a championship to his name. The team was never part of his agenda.