Reactions mixed to gunner’s safety suit

Stars and Stripes ^ | May 8, 2006 | Monte Morin

[Cannoneer No. 4]

The Michelin Man.

[Littlejon]

I have often wondered why they didn't just put a cover over the turret like the old ball-gunner turret on WWII bombers. With Lexan and other such materials, I would think they would provide as much, if not more, protection while not limiting sight or mobility.

Just curious!

[centurion316]

The Michelin Man.

That's exactly what I said the first time I saw one of these. "Looking goofy" would not be high on my list of concerns. It does illustrate that one of the problems with all of the counter IED initiatives is that while we back here in the land of the big PX see it as a big problem, the Joe's don't. From their foxhole, their company doesn't have much of an IED problem, it must be those poor dumb bastards in B Company.

[Yo-Yo]

This is a valuable weapon that will incapacitate any crowd...They will all be rolling on the ground laughing too hard to attack.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

ping

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Death Before Dismount was at one time a somewhat humorous saying amongst the track riders. It ain't funny anymore.

[Andy28]

Sounds like it could use a bit of tweaking, but with a few modifications could be a very useful system.

[When do we get liberated?]

Because at 125 degrees you don't want to be a greenhouse.

[rlmorel]

They are mostly young men. It does mean something to them...however unimportant it seems to us!

LOL! Good point...I would guess that, to young men in uniform, if it doesn't happen to you or your buddy, it is, to a degree, irrelevant. I suspect it has always been that way.

[Littlejon]

Hell, if we can air-condition Floriduh and Arizona, we ought to be able to put some wind in a turret on a Hummer! :)

[centurion316]

It was certainly true in my day. Hard to keep everyone alert, weapons and ammo clean, senses aware when you hadn't made any contact in a week or two.

[TalonDJ]

Soo.... It took them that long to do something like this. How long before they finally just make one these out of armored glass and mount it up there?

[TalonDJ]

air conditioners are cheap and Hummers have plenty of power to run an extra one.

[Khurkris]

If the troops ain't bitchin' they ain't payin' attention.

[M1Tanker]

I prefer the CROWs system myself. It is much safer for the crew, though it is much more expensive and requires modification to the vehicle. http://www.defense-update.com/products/c/CROWS.htm http://www.roi.bourns.com/weapon/crows.asp http://www4.army.mil/ocpa/read.php?story_id_key=7137

Note: All links are open source and approved for distribution.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Has Force Protection trumped common sense? The gunner is now fairly well protected, but what happens when he needs to unass the vehicle?

Our young men have become too precious to put in the mud. They must be carefully wrapped up in Ninja Turtle or Michelin Man armor and only brought out for special occasions.

So what happens when the next Cindy Sheehan wannabe blames Bush and Rumsfeld because her little Johnny didn't have an EOD suit? Or some Guard unit refuse to go outside the wire until they are all bombproof?

When does it end?

[M1Tanker]

That's why I wouldn't want the bomb suite. This is a problem with new technology. Most people who create it, though very patriotic and well meaning, haven't the foggiest clue about combat.

You can still exit the vehicle with the CROWS attached. It fits on the 50 CAL mount. The doors to the HMMWV are also not blocked. On the M113 and the Stryker, the top hatches are not blocked. All the CROWS does is give you a stabilized fire-on-the-move system with a laser rangefinder, thermal imaging, and nightvision. No bulky bomb suite armor needed.

The terrorists HATE these systems because it allows soldiers to engage them at maximum range with much higher 1st round (or one round) hit probabilities. A 50 CAL can be fire single shot in anti-sniper/IED roles, or a grenade launcher can lay down devastating patterns of fire with great accuracy.

As for the "turtle suite", I would rather just wear the latest IBA system. The IBA is much better and allows maneuver room. The suit above is just an accident waiting to happen.

As for Shehan and her Code Pink/Stormfront allies, it doesn't matter what we do, she will still cry crocodile tears and be the poster child for leftist stupidity.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

I like the CROWS, too, it is the Michelin Man in the turret I was talking about.

[M1Tanker]

Ok, I understand. Yeah, another article stated soldiers' concern about close combat and vehicle extraction issues.

The M1 TUSK is great too!! I never thought they could actually make an M1A2 look more intimidating, but they proved me wrong.

There were other oddities like the Michelin suit too. I knew of a helmet rated to survive a direct hit from a 50 CAL API round. It weighed 20 LBS and the inventor was shocked when we asked if a human being could survive the hit. He hadn't thought of that....

Another inventor had a great body armor system with a crotch pad that flapped as you moved. He never ran while wearing it and it was not a good sight when we asked him to run and he found his design flaw.....

On the good side, these people really do want to help us win the war. It's just that they have little experience in making this stuff. Army Acquisition Corps is getting better in laying out performance criteria for these companies. I-Robot, makers of the Packbot, are a great example of successes here.

[When do we get liberated?]

Even if you forget the A/C compressor drag and the extra weight, both of which suck on your manueverability and speed factor in combat, there are other factors.
The aircraft style gunners turret requires power to turn it, complicated by the weight of the bulletproof housing that is grining it's way thru dust 300 or so days a year. This weight is also top heavy and space consumptive in a Hummer. Might work better on a Bradley or larger ride.