Reactions mixed to gunner’s safety suit

Stars and Stripes ^ | May 8, 2006 | Monte Morin

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Reactions mixed to gunner’s safety suit
Cooling system iffy, but face shield gets an A+

By Monte Morin, Stars and Stripes
Mideast edition, Monday, May 8, 2006

Monte Morin / S&S
Military police in Mosul, Iraq, have been testing the new Cupola Protective Ensemble since January. The modified bomb disposal suit has already saved three soldiers’ lives, commanders said.


Monte Morin / S&S
A soldier dons his Cupola Protective Ensemble recently in Mosul, Iraq. Soldiers said they thought the suits looked “goofy” although they provided added  protection against roadside bombs.


Monte Morin / S&S
A vest soldiers wear beneath their bomb blast suits is lined with plastic tubing filled with chilled water. The vest is designed to lower the soldier’s body temperature while wearing the protective gear.

MOSUL, Iraq — Sure, he may look like an alien astronaut in that bulky blast suit, but turret gunner Bryce Harrison said he feels a little safer from roadside bombs.

The 21-year-old specialist from Satellite Beach, Fla., is one of a number of military police Humvee turret gunners who are testing the U.S. Army’s new Cupola Protective Ensemble, or CPE — a heavily armored, liquid-cooled bomb disposal suit adapted for patrols in Iraq.

The CPE features a heavy face shield and protective neck collar. It fits over a soldier’s flak vest and is one of a number of methods the Army is experimenting with to reduce the threat of roadside bombs — the biggest killer of U.S. soldiers in Iraq. Turret gunners with the Hanau, Germany-based 709th Military Police Battalion and the Fort Stewart, Ga.-based 549th Military Police Company began testing the suits in January and commanders say that they’ve already proven their mettle.

Capt. Larry Bergeron, commander of the 549th, said the suits have probably saved the lives of three soldiers who were sprayed by shrapnel from exploding roadside bombs.

“One soldier’s visor stopped a piece of shrapnel that hit dead center,” said Bergeron, 31. “If he didn’t have that suit on the effects could have been catastrophic.”

Despite their protective qualities, the suits have earned mixed reviews from soldiers, who complain that the cooling systems frequently break down and that they “look goofy,” wearing the equipment. They say, too, that the extra layer of protection limits their mobility.

“I’m not a big fan of this thing,” said Spc. Michael Floyd, 19, of Lebanon, Ind. “It’s just really hot and hard to move around in. I do feel safer, but only in an explosion. I wouldn’t feel safer in a rollover or in small-arms fire.”

Soldiers wearing the CPE look and move something like small children wearing heavy winter snowsuits. Heavy ballistic plates line the sleeves and chest. Before shrugging into their armor, soldiers put on a special cooling vest that fits over their T-shirt. The vest is lined with plastic tubing. The tubing is connected to a large “chiller” unit in the rear of the vehicle, which pumps cool water through the vest and reduces the soldier’s body temperature — or at least that’s what’s supposed to happen.

“It’s great in the winter but awful in the summer,” Harrison said. “It dies out at 120 degrees. When you need it most, it’s not going to work.”

Harrison and other gunners said that even with the added protection from roadside bombs, there were times they wished they didn’t have to wear the gear.

“I think it should be our personal preference whether we wear these things,” Harrison said.

The bomb disposal suits come with a pair of leggings and a large “diaper” that provides additional protection to the midsection. Since a gunner’s waist and legs aren’t exposed, those parts of the suit are not required.

As the U.S. military has sought to beef up vehicle armor on Humvees in the battle against roadside bombs, turret gunners have remained the most vulnerable since they stand partially out of their vehicles. Some military police and convoy security units have also adopted the use of the M1117 Guardian Armored Security Vehicle, or ASV — a four-wheeled armored vehicle with an enclosed, rotating turret that protects the gunner.

Several turret gunners who were interviewed recently said that while they had mixed feelings about the suit, they did say they were very happy to have the face shields that were fitted onto their helmets. The shields flip up and down like a welder’s mask.

“Everybody likes the face shield,” Bergeron said. “It’s hot, but they all like it.”

[Cannoneer No. 4]

The Michelin Man.

[Littlejon]

I have often wondered why they didn't just put a cover over the turret like the old ball-gunner turret on WWII bombers. With Lexan and other such materials, I would think they would provide as much, if not more, protection while not limiting sight or mobility.

Just curious!

[centurion316]

The Michelin Man.

That's exactly what I said the first time I saw one of these. "Looking goofy" would not be high on my list of concerns. It does illustrate that one of the problems with all of the counter IED initiatives is that while we back here in the land of the big PX see it as a big problem, the Joe's don't. From their foxhole, their company doesn't have much of an IED problem, it must be those poor dumb bastards in B Company.

[Yo-Yo]

This is a valuable weapon that will incapacitate any crowd...They will all be rolling on the ground laughing too hard to attack.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

ping

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Death Before Dismount was at one time a somewhat humorous saying amongst the track riders. It ain't funny anymore.

[Andy28]

Sounds like it could use a bit of tweaking, but with a few modifications could be a very useful system.

[When do we get liberated?]

Because at 125 degrees you don't want to be a greenhouse.

[rlmorel]

They are mostly young men. It does mean something to them...however unimportant it seems to us!

LOL! Good point...I would guess that, to young men in uniform, if it doesn't happen to you or your buddy, it is, to a degree, irrelevant. I suspect it has always been that way.

[Littlejon]

Hell, if we can air-condition Floriduh and Arizona, we ought to be able to put some wind in a turret on a Hummer! :)

[centurion316]

It was certainly true in my day. Hard to keep everyone alert, weapons and ammo clean, senses aware when you hadn't made any contact in a week or two.

[TalonDJ]

Soo.... It took them that long to do something like this. How long before they finally just make one these out of armored glass and mount it up there?

[TalonDJ]

air conditioners are cheap and Hummers have plenty of power to run an extra one.

[Khurkris]

If the troops ain't bitchin' they ain't payin' attention.

[M1Tanker]

I prefer the CROWs system myself. It is much safer for the crew, though it is much more expensive and requires modification to the vehicle. http://www.defense-update.com/products/c/CROWS.htm http://www.roi.bourns.com/weapon/crows.asp http://www4.army.mil/ocpa/read.php?story_id_key=7137

Note: All links are open source and approved for distribution.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Has Force Protection trumped common sense? The gunner is now fairly well protected, but what happens when he needs to unass the vehicle?

Our young men have become too precious to put in the mud. They must be carefully wrapped up in Ninja Turtle or Michelin Man armor and only brought out for special occasions.

So what happens when the next Cindy Sheehan wannabe blames Bush and Rumsfeld because her little Johnny didn't have an EOD suit? Or some Guard unit refuse to go outside the wire until they are all bombproof?

When does it end?

[M1Tanker]

That's why I wouldn't want the bomb suite. This is a problem with new technology. Most people who create it, though very patriotic and well meaning, haven't the foggiest clue about combat.

You can still exit the vehicle with the CROWS attached. It fits on the 50 CAL mount. The doors to the HMMWV are also not blocked. On the M113 and the Stryker, the top hatches are not blocked. All the CROWS does is give you a stabilized fire-on-the-move system with a laser rangefinder, thermal imaging, and nightvision. No bulky bomb suite armor needed.

The terrorists HATE these systems because it allows soldiers to engage them at maximum range with much higher 1st round (or one round) hit probabilities. A 50 CAL can be fire single shot in anti-sniper/IED roles, or a grenade launcher can lay down devastating patterns of fire with great accuracy.

As for the "turtle suite", I would rather just wear the latest IBA system. The IBA is much better and allows maneuver room. The suit above is just an accident waiting to happen.

As for Shehan and her Code Pink/Stormfront allies, it doesn't matter what we do, she will still cry crocodile tears and be the poster child for leftist stupidity.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

I like the CROWS, too, it is the Michelin Man in the turret I was talking about.

[M1Tanker]

Ok, I understand. Yeah, another article stated soldiers' concern about close combat and vehicle extraction issues.

The M1 TUSK is great too!! I never thought they could actually make an M1A2 look more intimidating, but they proved me wrong.

There were other oddities like the Michelin suit too. I knew of a helmet rated to survive a direct hit from a 50 CAL API round. It weighed 20 LBS and the inventor was shocked when we asked if a human being could survive the hit. He hadn't thought of that....

Another inventor had a great body armor system with a crotch pad that flapped as you moved. He never ran while wearing it and it was not a good sight when we asked him to run and he found his design flaw.....

On the good side, these people really do want to help us win the war. It's just that they have little experience in making this stuff. Army Acquisition Corps is getting better in laying out performance criteria for these companies. I-Robot, makers of the Packbot, are a great example of successes here.

[When do we get liberated?]

Even if you forget the A/C compressor drag and the extra weight, both of which suck on your manueverability and speed factor in combat, there are other factors.
The aircraft style gunners turret requires power to turn it, complicated by the weight of the bulletproof housing that is grining it's way thru dust 300 or so days a year. This weight is also top heavy and space consumptive in a Hummer. Might work better on a Bradley or larger ride.