Posted on 05/05/2006 7:21:22 AM PDT by churchillbuff
Is the national ID card the next step toward the imposition of the biblical "mark of the beast" Christians believe will be required to buy and sell during the Last Days?
That's the contention of a growing group of believers who are working to turn back the approval of the Real ID Act by Congress last year. Public Law 109-13 requires the national ID portion of the plan go into effect by May 2008.
"There is a prophecy in the Bible that foretells a time when every person will be required to have a mark or a number, without which he or she will not be able to participate in the economy," states the Christian website NoNationalID.com. "The prophecy is 2,000 years old, but it has been impossible for it to come to pass until now. With the invention of the computer and the Internet, this prophecy of buying and selling, using a number, can now be implemented at any time. Has the time for the fulfillment of this prophecy arrived?"
The site asks visitors to sign an online petition vowing not to vote for any candidate who does not commit to repealing the Real ID Act.
The goal, states the site, which is sponsored by Endtime Ministries, is to get 100,000 signatures on the petition.
On the site is a link to purchase a DVD entitled "666 – How Close? Will the National ID Become the Mark of the Beast?"
Americans choosing not to carry a national ID, the site warns, will be prohibited from driving a car, boarding a plane, train or bus, entering any federal building, opening a bank account, or possibly from holding a job.
"This is probably our last chance to head off the mechanism before it is actually implemented as the mark," states the site in the FAQ section. "It truly may be now or never."
The Real ID Act requires states to participate in a federal data-sharing program when issuing driver's licenses, making those licenses de facto national ID cards.
Touted as a tool of the war on terrorism, the ID card provision of the law, which also includes border-security measures, has attracted the most negative attention.
After May 11, 2008, "a federal agency may not accept, for any official purpose, a driver's license or identification card issued by a State to any person unless the State is meeting the requirements" specified in the Real ID Act. While states can issue non-federal ID cards, they would not be accepted by the Transportation Security Administration for travel purposes, grounding those who don't carry federally approved cards.
The data required to be included in each card are, among other things, the person's full legal name, date of birth, gender, driver's license number, a digital photo, the person's address and machine-readable technology so the information can be ready easily by government or banking personnel.
Each state must agree to share the data on the cards with every other state.
Supporters of the law say it does not require a "national" ID card because each state issues its own cards, not the federal government. But detractors note the cards are virtual national IDs since the federal law has dictated what data must be included and that each state must share its database with the others.
The New Hampshire Senate yesterday voted to reject a bill to rebel against the Real ID system and not participate in a pilot program for which the state had been tapped. The state House of Representatives passed the measure last month, but the Senate instead voted to study the driver's license requirements.
U.S. Sen. Judd Gregg, R-N.H., is urging his home state to give Real ID a try, saying it's needed to keep terrorists and illegal aliens from entering the country.
According to the Manchester Union Leader, Gregg argues that New Hampshire residents will find it difficult to get on airplanes or enter federal buildings if New Hampshire doesn't embrace Real ID.
Groups opposed to the Real ID Act are making strange bedfellows, with Christians like those running NoNationalID.com fighting on the same side with the American Civil Liberties Union, which sponsors the website RealNightmare.org.
The ACLU site decries the fact that a motor vehicles department staff person will be required to ask for immigration-status papers from those applying for driver's licenses.
"REAL ID will inevitably cause discrimination against U.S. citizens who may 'look' or 'sound' foreign to a DMV bureaucrat," states the site. "REAL ID requires DMV employees to decide whether someone is a citizen or foreigner before issuing a driver's license. The law demands that DMV bureaucrats distinguish among citizens, permanent resident immigrants and other non-citizens in deciding who is eligible for a license and what type of license may be issued.
"Based on past experience when similar requirements were imposed on employers, widespread discrimination resulted against citizens who 'looked' or 'sounded' foreign."
The civil-liberties group also slams a requirement of the law that some immigrants be issued a temporary "tier-two" license that has a prominent expiration date.
U.S. governors also have come out against the law, saying it is a huge unfunded mandate imposed on the nation's states.
The National Conference of State Legislatures is equally opposed to the Real ID Act, saying, "Federal legislators and rule makers are negating state driver's license security efforts, imposing difficult-to-comply-with mandates and limiting their flexibility to address new concerns as they arise. In other words, decades of state experience is being substituted for a 'command and control regime' from a level of government that has no driver's license regulatory experience."
Endtime Ministries' Irvin Baxter, a radio host, believes the national ID is a precursor to the forced embedding of radio-frequency chips under the skin.
Baxter told the Concord, N.H., Monitor: "That's where we are headed right now. The prophecy states that you will have to receive a mark on your hand or in your forehead."
Well if you think the American people's will is a small step then by all means you can think such a thing. I sure do not. An ID in your wallet that is valid and protected is something people want. A chip under their skin is not something they want. We can have one without the other.
I am for a spending based tax as well. In the end it still hs to be tracked thru ID. If it is not tracked at the business level then how do we know all businesses are paying what they have collected? In that event the business still has to be identitified.
"...that no pet will be able to sit or to heel, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name."
- Revelation 13:17, AKC version
"ANYONE can abuse. The way forward is to expose and prosecute such transgressions. No matter what party they belong to."
Very true, anyone can abuse and anyone can be prosecuted. But the sheep will tolerate abuses so long as they are getting bread and circuses won't they.
"I do not subscribe to the idea that a perfect solution is possible and that all action forward must be stopped by a potential for problems."
Neither do I, but I also do not subscribe to the idea that the American Government, MY Government, needs to ID and "Tag" it's people for the good of the community. If you want this, move to Russia, hell, move to the EU. I'm sure they would love to implement that. This move to "ID" people, is in direct violation of a person's right to privacy. Especially if and when the card is removed and some kind of RFID implant is put in it's place.
Sunset Clauses I feel should be in every single piece of legislation. Why?
Because there's no such thing as a "Temporary" government program, and if, by doing that, it keeps the maggots in DC too busy reaffirming old legislation, then that's fine by me. Keeps them from finding new ways of infringing on our liberties and freedoms. At least it might slow them down.
"If you do not want an ID then you do not want illegals to have one either right? Open borders then?"
Nope, not for either. Borders can be enforced without the need of Uncle Sugar's ID card. The process just takes determination to enforce current laws and Politicians that have a backbone slightly stronger than an amoeba's
Well being that this only applies to dogs coming out of the pound......your augmentation and spin transferring this to ALL dogs is exposed for what it is.
ALA Hillary....making it up!
"Then from his presence the hand was sent, and this writing was inscribed. And this is the writing that was inscribed:
SIT, SIT, STAY, and GOOD BOY" - Dan 5:24-25 (AKC)
You're welcome.
You seem to easily assume a lot of BS.
. . .
1. No, things are not the same as during Ike's years. They are much worse. I read the NWO's goals first in my Librarian/Curator's job in 1965 in their own publications. At this point in history, they have achieved 85-95% of the goals they had listed then--or--shall I say--they have reached 85-95% toward completing the goals they had listed then. You seem to be oblivious of that fact.
You seem to disregard a lot of troublesome facts that are inconvenient to your position and your biases. Not impressive.
The USA military is not my enemy and if you think it is then by all means escape. You are free to do so after all.
GRRRR. I'm a fierce supporter of the US Military and particularly the Navy--given that was my branch as well as the branch of both my dads. HOWEVER, as we saw during Billdo Klintoon's years, and have seen with the retired folks criticizing Rummuy, there are well placed quislings even in our beloved military who are well able, prepared and active in supporting the Commie, Marxist, socialist, globalist, NWO goals of the puppet masters. We are foolish if we do not recognize this part of the CURRENT CONTEXT.
I say to you that I am all for you being free to practice your religion. I support that entirely. I say to you that it should not be forced upon anyone and you call stupid...or as you put it ( not as smart as).... Whatever. I do not have the right to push my religion opn you and you do not have the right to push your religion on me. I am sorry you cannot grant me the same respect that I grant you. It says alot about your position that you would do sucha thing.
That sounds mostly unbelievable, to me. You evidently are in favor of forcing your religion on me . . . infanticide, homosexual marriage, NWO philosophy in Univ, K-12, politics, Media and Hollyweed evidently has your full support. Sounds like you are not very honest with yourself.
I'm not interested in forcing my religion on you or anyone. That does NOT work and is destructive to the goals and spirit of authentic Christianity. I am interested in obedience to the Bill of Rights regarding religion instead of the twisted upside down/tail-wagging-the-dog interpretation the courts have forced on us the last several decades.
One can put in place safeguards as this nation has done thruout all its history. Sometimes unforseen examples present themselves and there is a method to deal with them already in place.
Sorry, but that sounds like foggy gobbldygook, to me. I have no idea what you are talking about.
You are the one seeking tyranny by installing a religion and forcing all people to accept it. OSAMA would be proud on some levels. He wants to do that very thing also, just a different religion.
That's a bald faced untrue interpretation of what I seek. I fiercely resent your assertion and allegation. Please avoid putting your words in my fingers. Either you have no clue what I believe and want OR you are deliberately falsifying what I believe and want. Perhaps it's somewhat both.
Having and ID does not equate to abuse. If an ID is abused then we should deal with that. Having the ID istelf is not an abuse.
Nice mantra you have going there. I don't recall saying otherwise. I think dialogue works better when you pay attention to what I'm saying rather than putting your words in my fingers. I find that point a moot point in terms of what I'm talking about.
I do also note that bureaucracies naturally tend toward tyranny. Also, that when various means for tyranny are in place--whether installed deliberately toward that goal or not, SOONER OR LATER, THE BUREAUCRACY WILL RACHET UP THE LEVEL OF TYRANNY RATHER NATURALLY AND INHERENTLY.
To put it another way . . . bureaucratic power corrupts. Absolute bureaucracy corrupts absolutely. Give virtually any bureaucracy a better means of control and that bureaucracy will maximize the control with that means accordingly and often as fast as possible.
ANYTHING is open to abuse, I mean ANYTHING. My grass can be abused by the schoolagers coming from across the street. SO WHAT? No schoolagers should be able to walk down my street becasue THEY MIGHT abuse my grass? NO! Deal with the ones that do when they do it.
This is a moot point in terms of what I'm saying. Nice straw dog. No cigar.
I've mentioned 2 above. 1) Strengthen the family. 2) Strengthen the belief and practice of Judeo/Christian values.>BR> Actually you want to accomplish 1) by imposing 2). GTood luck with that.
PLEASE quite presenting a lie about what I want as the truth. You evidently have no clue about what I want in spite of my best efforts. Your ASSUMPTIONS about what I want are off the wall compared to the truth of what I want.
About the chip, I belive it has its proper place. I sure think it would have been a good thing to have seen jessica lynch with one. Scott micheal Speicher and Michael Durante as well. I know you will SOOOO diagree with that HUH?
I have no doubt that you mean what you say. And, that's plenty alarming. Are you a conservative? I haven't followed your postings much at all. If you are a conservative and believe as above, that's quite alarming, indeed.
I wonder, once the SLAG has been implemented . . . given the heavy control of the media even 100% or near it--how will the average citizen know that it's begun to be forced? How will the average citizen know that folks are being executed because they refuse to accept the SLAG? We shall see.
Think about your border stance for a minute. You are advocating an ID! A National one! I agree with that entirely.
Hello? Are we on the same planet? More off the wall ASSUMPTION about what I've written and want. SHOW ME. WHERE DID I EVER ADVOCATE A NATIONAL ID???? I deplore the whole idea. I even deplore standardizing Federal standards for State Drivers' licenses. Sheesh. If you truly want a dialogue, which I doubt, please pay attention much better to what I write and particularly to what I do not write!
A sane way to hold employers accountable is to require a valid form of ID that is accurate and checkable. That takes a database to draw upon to check ID presented. If foreign workers are desired then an employer should have to show why Americans are not taking these jobs, I offer that a reality based look at such a thing would show that foreign labor is an attempt to cheat the free market and the forces that guide it. If they can show they offer a wage worth the job as to their profits then by all means allow seasonal workers to come here in an orderly identified fashion.
I'm all for an orderly fashion of seasonal or temporary workers, if that's required.
I do not believe a national ID is ESSENTIAL to that goal. It IS, however, ESSENTIAL TO THE GLOBALIST GOALS OF THE PUPPET MASTERS.
Strengthening the sense, truth, practice, emotional bondedness, cohesiveness, durability of neighborhoods and other communities would help
A proper ID would indeed promote all these things.
Not necessarily and certainly not inherently or automatically. Actually, it would tend to set factions much more against one another--yielding a context wherein brother turned against brother; parent against child; child against parent--turning them in for favors and even bread--just as Scripture predicts will occur.
Proper ID and an end to the what if arguments would help the courts alot. David westerfield trial is a great example. Prosecution negotiated with him about the location of danielle's body. If they took Death Penalty off the table he would tell them where the body was located. The jury NEVER got to hear that tidbit. Yet every waht if was presented even though it was known from the very begining he did what he did to that little girl. Research that trial a bit if you didn't catch it and you will see what I mean. Truth needs to be more involved in the court procedures and that would alot of the stalling that goes on.
Mostly, I have no significant disagreement with that paragraph.
Rehab is why so many reoffend. They were not punished. Look to Mousaui...poor little guy had a troubled childhooooooooooooddddd.....WHAHAAAAA... SO now we get to pay tax dollars for decades instead of being done with someone that has no right to walk among us.
Not my reality. And I really do NOT like it when you persist in putting your words in my fingers.
My reality is that the current truth is that INEFFECTIVE or pseudo-REHAB is not helpful to society--as well as a huge waste of resources.
Part of the Judeo/Christian heritage is that some humans are worth redeeming and at least some of them can be redeemed sufficiently to make it worthwhile for them to breathe air and take up space.
Implementing an effective rehab program seems to be a goal that the bureaucracy never quite lives up to or even near up to. Actually, there are some VOLUNTARY faith-based programs which do achieve a very statistically significant improvement of successful rehab because the individual's re-integration and assimilation back into society is maximized quite well and quite successfully. Perhaps you'd prefer to have the folks killed instead of allow them to be offered a voluntary faith-based rehab option?
IF--IF--IF that is your preference as it APPEARS to be--that folks for more or less any significant infraction are removed from the gene pool--then you will likely get your wish. Evidently, according to some reports, the NWO plan is to enable law enforcement personnel to make an on-the-spot determination of guilt. And, unless it's something truly minor like a ONE TIME, FIRST TIME parking ticket--shoot the offender dead on the spot. They expect to make things a lot cheaper and reduce crime markedly with that--in conjunction with the SLAG.
We can remove public officials via the vote. I agree it is time people wake up and do that vewry thing. Can we start with Kerry and Kennedy?
I'm certainly in favor of removing Scuba Teddy and Skerry and Shrillery ASAP. Some people even assert that in some sections of the country, the so called vote is a sham already. Given the MSM and other factors, the vote will likely become more and more of a sham in more and more areas of society the world over.
Wanting to have a valid form of ID is not equal to backing installation of a chip in every person. I hold no such position of wanting all people to have a chip installed, but I do understand that it does have proper uses in some cases.
- - -
IF, IF, IF
you are not familiar and convinced of the truth of the frog-in-the-gradually-warmed-to-boiling-bucket phenomena,
then
I am CERTAIN that I am very inadequate to enable you to better understand or believe that that phenomena is and has been at work toward conditioning the populace toward accepting the SLAG as a mandatory requirement. But, hey, I never claimed I had the ability to force you to avoid traveling down the yellow brick road.
If God gave you a unique identity why would he want you to hide it from all the other unique entities he created? What would be the purpose of creating everyone to be unique if not to identify the differences between us?
You know like legal and illegal? Man and Woman? Father and son? Mother and daughter? Friend or foe?
- - -
I understood that you feel uniqueness is [for me--a God]-given blessed truism. I agree with that.
What I have no understanding of at all is how you are connecting your comment to something/anything I wrote/said.
The fanatics who insisted decades ago that the SS# was a forerunner of the Mark of the Beast turn out to have been right.
That doesn't mean I'm refusing to use it at this point.
It is also true that credit cards and now debit cards are further-down-the-road forerunners of the mark.
And such cards with the active computer chips in them will be/are even more so.
Taiwan's government was going to implement such folding into the chipped bank card all the other ID's, health, tax records etc. as the NWO folks have planned all along. Taiwan's perceptive Nobel Prize recipient successfully vetoed it. Thank God for his delaying it.
Would you have really thought it an advance in social control of benefit to society to have segregated the Jews into enclaves in Germany at that point in time? When would you have drawn that line?
You seem energetically eager to draw the line on the ID extremely close to the decree to force the SLAG on everyone by fiat. Sorry, I'm not impressed.
Well put.
Thanks.
Bump.
If nothing else . . . though distasteful and a hazard . . .
Take his finger prints and iris scans and check the FBI etc. databases. Enter his data in.
Then, require him to furnish verification via whatever rational means.
I think that would be sufficient without a SLAG.
No, but it will happen. 'Specially if Hillary gets in.
Comparing what you must do to license a dog in some juridictions to forcing everyone carry national papers to be shown upon demand and creating a national database of everyone is a specious argument.
Apples and oranges, to say the least.
What an ENEMY of freedom you are!
I don't fly.
One, I'm 6'4" and scrunching myself into the average coach seat is uncomfortable.
Two, the train is more fun.
Three, most times I'd rather drive myself.....better stereo equipment and tunes.
They know it, but if they ever divulge that info to anyone, they'd regret it.
Basically, they have no RIGHT to it. And I've created public scenes because I've been asked for it frivolously.
The set of rules is called the Constitution.
And it even protects foolish arguments like you give here.
Why are you so anti-liberty?
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