Posted on 05/05/2006 7:21:22 AM PDT by churchillbuff
Is the national ID card the next step toward the imposition of the biblical "mark of the beast" Christians believe will be required to buy and sell during the Last Days?
That's the contention of a growing group of believers who are working to turn back the approval of the Real ID Act by Congress last year. Public Law 109-13 requires the national ID portion of the plan go into effect by May 2008.
"There is a prophecy in the Bible that foretells a time when every person will be required to have a mark or a number, without which he or she will not be able to participate in the economy," states the Christian website NoNationalID.com. "The prophecy is 2,000 years old, but it has been impossible for it to come to pass until now. With the invention of the computer and the Internet, this prophecy of buying and selling, using a number, can now be implemented at any time. Has the time for the fulfillment of this prophecy arrived?"
The site asks visitors to sign an online petition vowing not to vote for any candidate who does not commit to repealing the Real ID Act.
The goal, states the site, which is sponsored by Endtime Ministries, is to get 100,000 signatures on the petition.
On the site is a link to purchase a DVD entitled "666 – How Close? Will the National ID Become the Mark of the Beast?"
Americans choosing not to carry a national ID, the site warns, will be prohibited from driving a car, boarding a plane, train or bus, entering any federal building, opening a bank account, or possibly from holding a job.
"This is probably our last chance to head off the mechanism before it is actually implemented as the mark," states the site in the FAQ section. "It truly may be now or never."
The Real ID Act requires states to participate in a federal data-sharing program when issuing driver's licenses, making those licenses de facto national ID cards.
Touted as a tool of the war on terrorism, the ID card provision of the law, which also includes border-security measures, has attracted the most negative attention.
After May 11, 2008, "a federal agency may not accept, for any official purpose, a driver's license or identification card issued by a State to any person unless the State is meeting the requirements" specified in the Real ID Act. While states can issue non-federal ID cards, they would not be accepted by the Transportation Security Administration for travel purposes, grounding those who don't carry federally approved cards.
The data required to be included in each card are, among other things, the person's full legal name, date of birth, gender, driver's license number, a digital photo, the person's address and machine-readable technology so the information can be ready easily by government or banking personnel.
Each state must agree to share the data on the cards with every other state.
Supporters of the law say it does not require a "national" ID card because each state issues its own cards, not the federal government. But detractors note the cards are virtual national IDs since the federal law has dictated what data must be included and that each state must share its database with the others.
The New Hampshire Senate yesterday voted to reject a bill to rebel against the Real ID system and not participate in a pilot program for which the state had been tapped. The state House of Representatives passed the measure last month, but the Senate instead voted to study the driver's license requirements.
U.S. Sen. Judd Gregg, R-N.H., is urging his home state to give Real ID a try, saying it's needed to keep terrorists and illegal aliens from entering the country.
According to the Manchester Union Leader, Gregg argues that New Hampshire residents will find it difficult to get on airplanes or enter federal buildings if New Hampshire doesn't embrace Real ID.
Groups opposed to the Real ID Act are making strange bedfellows, with Christians like those running NoNationalID.com fighting on the same side with the American Civil Liberties Union, which sponsors the website RealNightmare.org.
The ACLU site decries the fact that a motor vehicles department staff person will be required to ask for immigration-status papers from those applying for driver's licenses.
"REAL ID will inevitably cause discrimination against U.S. citizens who may 'look' or 'sound' foreign to a DMV bureaucrat," states the site. "REAL ID requires DMV employees to decide whether someone is a citizen or foreigner before issuing a driver's license. The law demands that DMV bureaucrats distinguish among citizens, permanent resident immigrants and other non-citizens in deciding who is eligible for a license and what type of license may be issued.
"Based on past experience when similar requirements were imposed on employers, widespread discrimination resulted against citizens who 'looked' or 'sounded' foreign."
The civil-liberties group also slams a requirement of the law that some immigrants be issued a temporary "tier-two" license that has a prominent expiration date.
U.S. governors also have come out against the law, saying it is a huge unfunded mandate imposed on the nation's states.
The National Conference of State Legislatures is equally opposed to the Real ID Act, saying, "Federal legislators and rule makers are negating state driver's license security efforts, imposing difficult-to-comply-with mandates and limiting their flexibility to address new concerns as they arise. In other words, decades of state experience is being substituted for a 'command and control regime' from a level of government that has no driver's license regulatory experience."
Endtime Ministries' Irvin Baxter, a radio host, believes the national ID is a precursor to the forced embedding of radio-frequency chips under the skin.
Baxter told the Concord, N.H., Monitor: "That's where we are headed right now. The prophecy states that you will have to receive a mark on your hand or in your forehead."
I know this is a more serious thread but I must thank you for posting that pic of Hot Stuff. Haven't seen him in years. Used to enjoy his comics.
The intent of ID today here in this nation is far far far from such a thing. The intent today is to seperate those that abide by the law from those that do not.
Will you now compare the rule of law and adherence to it akin to "papers please"???? Sheesh!
The road to hell and dictatorships as well as the abuse and misuse of governmental power is paved with good intentions.
Do you trust the Dims to use this ONLY for the purpose it is intended?
I don't
Do you trust ANYONE to have this authority over you knowing it's potential for abuse?
I don't
Our Government is turning it's control mechanisms inward with no sign of letting up.
I would feel much better about this legislation, if there was a sunset clause built in.
Don't "sheesh" me. History is replete with examples of governmental abuse. Both here and abroad. Thankfully more abroad than here.
I'm not now, nor will I ever be comfortable with anyone in our Government requiring ID.
Yes, that includes Driver's Licenses.
Not when that DNA is in a governmnet database and can be used to investigate me with a crime when trhere's been NO probable cause established.
Not when that DNA can be used to deny me certain things like the right to obtain reasonable rates on health insurance...and don't you for one minute believe that the governmnet won't somehow be in connivance with insurance underwriters...they already are. This is why we have idiotic seatbelt laws.
Why is HR 4437 a globalist dream?
Yes...because Social Security is unconstitutional, and taxing business is unconscionable.
How can one gain a warrant directed at an individual without first establishing the identity of the one you seek to gain a warrant towards?
Warrants are not supposed to be impossible. If you cannot ID a person in todays world you cannot gain a warrant. But then, that is what you really seek huh?
I will ask you too and a bit more specific this time.
How can one gain a warrant in today's world without establishing the identity of the person one seeks to gain a warrant against?
I do nto diasgree with that hedge. Hence my support for searching every person that seeks to fly, just like the Israeli's do.
Please note that many who oppose an ID as infringment also claim that airline searches area violation as well.
Every private business cannot offer their own form of ID and expect to stay in business for very long. The scope is simply to briad in today's world. What that angle is....is impracticle. One solid ID is the best move forward.
Should that ID be protected under the law? DAMN right it should be. Protected from abuse, but not from use.
So then to you your identity to the government of the USA ( the people) is too much information and is not needed?
Well then you make a good case for the illegals, after all the government should not have and does not need their Identity information right? That is what you are saying in this post.
(A) A requirement that social security cards that are made of a durable plastic or similar material and that include an encrypted, machine-readable electronic identification strip and a digital photograph of the individual to whom the card is issued, be issued to each individual (whether or not a United States citizen) who--The unified database will be comprised of two databases from DHS and SSA, including 'personal identifiers.'(B) The creation of a unified database to be maintained by the Department of Homeland Security and comprised of data from the Social Security Administration and the Department of Homeland Security specifying the work authorization of individuals (including both United States citizens and noncitizens) for the purpose of conducting employment eligibility verification.(i) is authorized to be employed in the United States;
(ii) is seeking employment in the United States; and
(iii) files an application for such card, whether as a replacement of an existing social security card or as a card issued in connection with the issuance of a new social security account number.
Also notice that the SSA card was not supposed to be used as an ID. Adding a credit-card-type magnetic strip and a picture suggests otherwise.
If the original purpose of the SS card is amended, why can't the purpose of the "unified database" be modified also? How long before the "employment eligibility verification" databases are used for other purposes?
You seem to contend that you know much more about such things AND are much smarter about what you know than President Eisenhower. Guess I disagree on that score. I don't think you come close to his knowledge, at least, on that score. Your postings to me here have not proven to me that you are smarter. It's conceivable that you are.
You seem to derisively mock the idea there there is a growing globalist cabal of industrial and planted personnel in the military . . . and the revolving doors between the positions . . . gearing up to force a tyrannical globalist government on the world. If you doubt that, then my only conclusion is that you have not researched the topic well at all. Or you simply choose to disbelieve the enormously aundant evidence. Your disbelief won't hinder the coming global tyranny one microgram's worth, however.
Applied to this context, it is not the ID that people are so against, even though they pose it that way. It is the abuses they are against. I stand with those folks as to abuse but I differ with you and them on this point. ID abuse is happening today. It can be dealt with far better than it is today with a far more accurate form of ID replacing the redundant ID's we have today that are easy to forge.
Changing abuse of ID's to abuse of people is not progress, in our view.
Some experts contend that the SLAG chip implants would be abusable, too.
Lack fo perfection is not failure. Lack of doing possible things to make the situation better IS!
I don't recall saying anything about avoiding enforcing the ID abuse rules we have now. Certainly they should be fittingly enforced.
To qualify that opposition as valid one must offer an alternative along side that opposition. Without doing so, folks might just as well join the democratic party because that is the politics they practice....opposition without alternative solution.
I've mentioned 2 above. 1) Strengthen the family. 2) Strengthen the belief and practice of Judeo/Christian values.
3. Guarding the borders as any government is minimally expected to do, would help. Of course, the same people bringing you the SLAG are intent on creating one country for NORTHAM. They have already divided the world up into 10 regions, of which NORTHAM is one. There is a method to their madness of making the borders nonexistent.
4. Enforcing rules regarding employers and establishing a viable, sane way to add needed extra workers would help.
5. Strengthening the sense, truth, practice, emotional bondedness, cohesiveness, durability of neighborhoods and other communities would help.
6. Strengthening the enforcement of laws on the books would help.
7. Replacing the hideous court shams and abuses with a much healthier, more viable and FASTER system of adjudication would help.
8. Having a much improved punishment system and where practical, a more viable rehab system and reintegration system of former offenders back into the community would help.
9. Rewarding models of humility, community leadership, personal responsibility stars etc. at least 20% as much as we reward rock stars would help.
10. Removing corrupt public officials at all levels would help.
When soeone steals your identity and screws up your life for years and years then you come talk to me about liberty.
I have been there. Have you? I pose you have not and hence you are speaking about that which you have no experience...in addition you are ignoring the experience of someone that HAS been thru such a VIOLATION OF LIBERTY!
Yours is imaginary and abstract and mine is real....but yours is so much more valid huh! Whatever.
I'm certainly no biblical scholar, but I don't see how a piece of paper constitutes an irrevocable "mark".
If that was the case, I'd be in real trouble since I carry a drivers license, social security card, military ID card, debit card...
The intent of ID today here in this nation is far far far from such a thing. The intent today is to seperate those that abide by the law from those that do not.
- - -
You just happen to be WRONG about that.
As I said, one of the original inventors of the SLAG chip implant easily realized on reading Rev 13:16-17; 14:9; 15:2; 16:2; 19:20 & 20:4 as shown him by his friend--that given WHAT HE ALREADY KNEW FROM HIS HIGHLY CLASSIFIED JOB ABOUT THE PLANS FOR SUCH A CHIP IMPLANT--that it was to be a key aspect of the coming global tyranny.
IIRC, that scientist may well have given his life far too early for his troubles of publicizing those plans.
You don't have to believe the truth of that, yet. At some point, you will have no choice but to believe as it comes true before your eyes. I just hope you have the courage to refuse the implant, when it comes down to that--even to the point of choosing death and Eternal Life instead of the implant.
The same way they always did. Stakeouts, eyewitnesses, and plain old-fashioned gumshoe work and boring waiting.
somehow I just KNEW this would be coming from WORLDNUTDAILY
Israel doesn't have our Bill of Rights. So what they do is irrelevant.
If you'd rather feel safe than get trhere quickly....walk instead of fly.
I do see what you mean- thanks for the explanation.
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