YOUR PAPERS, PLEASE …Is coming national ID 'mark of the beast'?

WND ^ | May 5 06 | Ron Strom

[mafree]

I know this is a more serious thread but I must thank you for posting that pic of Hot Stuff. Haven't seen him in years. Used to enjoy his comics.

[Leatherneck_MT]

The intent of ID today here in this nation is far far far from such a thing. The intent today is to seperate those that abide by the law from those that do not.

Will you now compare the rule of law and adherence to it akin to "papers please"???? Sheesh!

The road to hell and dictatorships as well as the abuse and misuse of governmental power is paved with good intentions.

Do you trust the Dims to use this ONLY for the purpose it is intended?

I don't

Do you trust ANYONE to have this authority over you knowing it's potential for abuse?

I don't

Our Government is turning it's control mechanisms inward with no sign of letting up.

I would feel much better about this legislation, if there was a sunset clause built in.

Don't "sheesh" me. History is replete with examples of governmental abuse. Both here and abroad. Thankfully more abroad than here.

I'm not now, nor will I ever be comfortable with anyone in our Government requiring ID.

Yes, that includes Driver's Licenses.

[Crispus Attucks Patriot]

Not when that DNA is in a governmnet database and can be used to investigate me with a crime when trhere's been NO probable cause established.

Not when that DNA can be used to deny me certain things like the right to obtain reasonable rates on health insurance...and don't you for one minute believe that the governmnet won't somehow be in connivance with insurance underwriters...they already are. This is why we have idiotic seatbelt laws.

[mafree]

The "Patriot" Act, the "real" ID act, HR 4437, etc, are globalists' dreams.

Why is HR 4437 a globalist dream?

[Crispus Attucks Patriot]

Yes...because Social Security is unconstitutional, and taxing business is unconscionable.

[BlueStateDepression]

Well you can believe this nation is hilteresque if you want to. You will grow out of that eventually.

Oh, we have been aware for at least a decade or 3 that one of the seeling points was slated to be the convenience and reduction in number of ID's. Nothing new on that point.

Nothing to oppose on that point either huh? See that yet?

If you think we have the means to accurately identify people today then could you please explain all the idenity theft that takes place today? What exactly would need to be enforced that isn't causing this problem?

If personal respobsibility can be more accurately assigned thru a better ID then what is th point opposing it when you support such an act? What is the alternative?

I do not agree that proper ID equates to tyranny.

Our constitution outlines the way in which personal responsibility is judicially handled in society. Here is the reason why it was done that way.

1. Families need strengthened to the point that folks are held to account powerfully and decisively within the context of their families and their family values and effective attachments. THAT SINGLE ISSUE would dramatically solve the problem of personal responsibility.

You describe SHARIA law here wether you care to see that or not. I agree families need strengthened but the only way that can be done is for people to hold themselves accountable for their actions within the family. I do not subscrbe to the idea that one can socially engineer quality family values.

While I find many of the teachings in the christian religion valuable I do not agree that forcing religion or its values is a proper way forward. Fallujah is a good example, so is tehrahn. Quality morality is contained within the bible but it is not exclusive to it nor is it the reason for it.

I do not need a bible to tell me not to steal. I know not to steal because I do not want things stolen from me. Same morality, same quality, and religion was not the player that brought it, though it plays by the same rules.

Bureaucratic based tyranny

Sharia law is exactly that. Vatican is exactly that.( the assanine opposition to condoms when aids runs rampant is an example of what I mean by that). People should have quality morality because they want to and because it is the right thing to do towards fellow man, not because a book says to have it or a religion or pastor or cleric says to have it.

When one truly beleives in personal responsibility there is noone else to blame.

[BlueStateDepression]

How can one gain a warrant directed at an individual without first establishing the identity of the one you seek to gain a warrant towards?

[BlueStateDepression]

Warrants are not supposed to be impossible. If you cannot ID a person in todays world you cannot gain a warrant. But then, that is what you really seek huh?

I will ask you too and a bit more specific this time.

How can one gain a warrant in today's world without establishing the identity of the person one seeks to gain a warrant against?

[BlueStateDepression]

I do nto diasgree with that hedge. Hence my support for searching every person that seeks to fly, just like the Israeli's do.

Please note that many who oppose an ID as infringment also claim that airline searches area violation as well.

Every private business cannot offer their own form of ID and expect to stay in business for very long. The scope is simply to briad in today's world. What that angle is....is impracticle. One solid ID is the best move forward.

Should that ID be protected under the law? DAMN right it should be. Protected from abuse, but not from use.

[BlueStateDepression]

So then to you your identity to the government of the USA ( the people) is too much information and is not needed?

Well then you make a good case for the illegals, after all the government should not have and does not need their Identity information right? That is what you are saying in this post.

[george wythe]

HR 4437

(A) A requirement that social security cards that are made of a durable plastic or similar material and that include an encrypted, machine-readable electronic identification strip and a digital photograph of the individual to whom the card is issued, be issued to each individual (whether or not a United States citizen) who--

(i) is authorized to be employed in the United States;

(ii) is seeking employment in the United States; and

(iii) files an application for such card, whether as a replacement of an existing social security card or as a card issued in connection with the issuance of a new social security account number.

(B) The creation of a unified database to be maintained by the Department of Homeland Security and comprised of data from the Social Security Administration and the Department of Homeland Security specifying the work authorization of individuals (including both United States citizens and noncitizens) for the purpose of conducting employment eligibility verification.

The unified database will be comprised of two databases from DHS and SSA, including 'personal identifiers.'

Also notice that the SSA card was not supposed to be used as an ID. Adding a credit-card-type magnetic strip and a picture suggests otherwise.

If the original purpose of the SS card is amended, why can't the purpose of the "unified database" be modified also? How long before the "employment eligibility verification" databases are used for other purposes?

[Quix]

Oh yes, our military and our industry is the problem......FFS!

You seem to contend that you know much more about such things AND are much smarter about what you know than President Eisenhower. Guess I disagree on that score. I don't think you come close to his knowledge, at least, on that score. Your postings to me here have not proven to me that you are smarter. It's conceivable that you are.

You seem to derisively mock the idea there there is a growing globalist cabal of industrial and planted personnel in the military . . . and the revolving doors between the positions . . . gearing up to force a tyrannical globalist government on the world. If you doubt that, then my only conclusion is that you have not researched the topic well at all. Or you simply choose to disbelieve the enormously aundant evidence. Your disbelief won't hinder the coming global tyranny one microgram's worth, however.

Applied to this context, it is not the ID that people are so against, even though they pose it that way. It is the abuses they are against. I stand with those folks as to abuse but I differ with you and them on this point. ID abuse is happening today. It can be dealt with far better than it is today with a far more accurate form of ID replacing the redundant ID's we have today that are easy to forge.

Changing abuse of ID's to abuse of people is not progress, in our view.

Some experts contend that the SLAG chip implants would be abusable, too.

Lack fo perfection is not failure. Lack of doing possible things to make the situation better IS!

I don't recall saying anything about avoiding enforcing the ID abuse rules we have now. Certainly they should be fittingly enforced.

To qualify that opposition as valid one must offer an alternative along side that opposition. Without doing so, folks might just as well join the democratic party because that is the politics they practice....opposition without alternative solution.

I've mentioned 2 above. 1) Strengthen the family. 2) Strengthen the belief and practice of Judeo/Christian values.

3. Guarding the borders as any government is minimally expected to do, would help. Of course, the same people bringing you the SLAG are intent on creating one country for NORTHAM. They have already divided the world up into 10 regions, of which NORTHAM is one. There is a method to their madness of making the borders nonexistent.

4. Enforcing rules regarding employers and establishing a viable, sane way to add needed extra workers would help.

5. Strengthening the sense, truth, practice, emotional bondedness, cohesiveness, durability of neighborhoods and other communities would help.

6. Strengthening the enforcement of laws on the books would help.

7. Replacing the hideous court shams and abuses with a much healthier, more viable and FASTER system of adjudication would help.

8. Having a much improved punishment system and where practical, a more viable rehab system and reintegration system of former offenders back into the community would help.

9. Rewarding models of humility, community leadership, personal responsibility stars etc. at least 20% as much as we reward rock stars would help.

10. Removing corrupt public officials at all levels would help.

[BlueStateDepression]

When soeone steals your identity and screws up your life for years and years then you come talk to me about liberty.

I have been there. Have you? I pose you have not and hence you are speaking about that which you have no experience...in addition you are ignoring the experience of someone that HAS been thru such a VIOLATION OF LIBERTY!
Yours is imaginary and abstract and mine is real....but yours is so much more valid huh! Whatever.

[Not A Snowbird]

I'm certainly no biblical scholar, but I don't see how a piece of paper constitutes an irrevocable "mark".

If that was the case, I'd be in real trouble since I carry a drivers license, social security card, military ID card, debit card...

[Quix]

The intent of ID today here in this nation is far far far from such a thing. The intent today is to seperate those that abide by the law from those that do not.
- - -

You just happen to be WRONG about that.

As I said, one of the original inventors of the SLAG chip implant easily realized on reading Rev 13:16-17; 14:9; 15:2; 16:2; 19:20 & 20:4 as shown him by his friend--that given WHAT HE ALREADY KNEW FROM HIS HIGHLY CLASSIFIED JOB ABOUT THE PLANS FOR SUCH A CHIP IMPLANT--that it was to be a key aspect of the coming global tyranny.

IIRC, that scientist may well have given his life far too early for his troubles of publicizing those plans.

You don't have to believe the truth of that, yet. At some point, you will have no choice but to believe as it comes true before your eyes. I just hope you have the courage to refuse the implant, when it comes down to that--even to the point of choosing death and Eternal Life instead of the implant.

[Crispus Attucks Patriot]

The same way they always did. Stakeouts, eyewitnesses, and plain old-fashioned gumshoe work and boring waiting.

[BlueStateDepression]

Do you trust the Dims to use this ONLY for the purpose it is intended?

ANYONE can abuse. The way forward is to expose and prosecute such transgressions. No matter what party they belong to.

Do you trust ANYONE to have this authority over you knowing it's potential for abuse?

While potential abuse needs to play a part in the debate I am confident that when politics is set aside, proper safe guards can be put into place. I do not subscribe to the idea that a perfect solution is possible and that all action forward must be stopped by a potential for problems.

Sunset clauses are just a way for politicians to have things happen and avoid the rap for making it happen. Congress has the power to repeal or modify a law at any time. They should do so when appropriate. I offer that a sunset clause is a cop out for spineless politicians to get out of doing their job. EXAMPLE: the so called" assault weapons ban" came up for renewall and it was allowed to sunset. This amounts to congress being able to take the path of inaction and thus allows them to skate as to what their actual vote would have been. They avoided casting a vote for or agaisnt that legislation and thus the leftists were able to hide behind inaction so that people cannot see they really want to take away your guns. This action removes the personal responsibility because they were not forced to take a position.

If you do not want an ID then you do not want illegals to have one either right? Open borders then?

[MikefromOhio]

somehow I just KNEW this would be coming from WORLDNUTDAILY

[Crispus Attucks Patriot]

Israel doesn't have our Bill of Rights. So what they do is irrelevant.

If you'd rather feel safe than get trhere quickly....walk instead of fly.

[mafree]

I do see what you mean- thanks for the explanation.