Posted on 05/04/2006 9:14:42 AM PDT by DesScorp
NORFOLK, Va. -- A chaplain stationed at Naval Station Norfolk said he could face court-martial for praying in uniform outside the White House.
Lt. Gordon Klingenschmitt said he prayed at a March 30 protest opposing Department of Defense rules forbidding military chaplains from invoking the name of Jesus Christ.
He's accused of violating an order not to appear in uniform at news conferences in support of personal or religious issues.
The issue seems to hinge on whether his praying at the event was permissible participation at a bona fide religious service. Klingenschmitt is rejecting non-judicial punishment in favor of trial by court-martial.
In addition, he's filing a complaint against the Navy claiming the threat of punishment against him amounts to religious harassment and he's appealing to the White House to end what he claims are the military's attempts to take reprisals against a whistle-blower.
(Excerpt) Read more at nbc4.tv ...
My point was that presidents don't get elected then hire their own personal generals from outside the military. You know, like appointing a cabinet member. The generals have served in the military for decades before they are selected for different commands based on their career paths and areas of expertise.
As it should. The president is commander in chief of the military. The military carried out his orders because of his position not because he was a democrat.
They were retired just like you and once out of uniform are free to express their opinion as you also express your opinion. Before your retirement how many direct orders did you disobey?
"It DOES contain words prohibiting government interferance in the practice of religion."
Which prosylitizing is. The government cannot promote a particular set of religious beliefs. It CAN accomodate the religious beliefs and needs of it's citizens, by providing government-paid chaplians, for example. Those government-paid chaplains prosylitizing IS government interference in the practice of religion. Because some may construe it as positive interferrence makes it no less an interferrence and not constitutional, IMO.
It's against the UCMJ to appear at political rally or protest event in uniform. This chaplain had every right to be there and pray, so long as he did so in civvies.
Not just in civvies...He must do so as John Q. Public not as LT John Q. Public USN.
I repeat the last thing I said. Generals, like the current chief of staff, get called back. Enlisted are highly unlikely to get called back unless a major shortage in the time of war. Generals mouths open draw much more attention to that of NCO's who express the same. I seriously doubt if I openly disagreeded with Bush or the administration or Rumsfeld, that I would draw a crowd. Generals however draw major MSM coverages. As for disobeying lawful orders, if lawful, I never disobeyed one. Do you know what the difference is? If not, read the UCMJ.
Proof?You are entitled to your opine--but if you want others
to believe you you need offer more than personal opine.Seem torecall there are several Navy Chaplains involved in legal
action claiming discrimination because they are evangelical
Christians?
Seem to recall one of the complaints by Lt.K. was that the
Navy required Chaplains provide sailors to attend a Fleet week service at a church known to preach the gay agenda.
The chaplain ought be the one to determine how he/she/it will pray -and to whom. Those in attendence can accept
or respectfully absent themselves.If a chaplain is asked
to invoke God's blessings at any event-the Chaplain ought be allowed follow his religious tradition.
Does Wesley Clark have any merits left he can claim honorable? Seem to recall he was SNAFU as a NATO Commander.
I stand corrected. Thank you.
So how did that Senator from Mass. who served in Vietnam
get away with the crap he pulled while carried as a Naval
Officer? The communist draft dodger uniform I recall seeing
quick John wearing were partial uniforms and to this day he has not been held accountable for his TREASON.
I think I can read, he was given a order, he chose to disobey it. Regardless of whether a officer can be recalled as long as he is a civilian he has the right to free speech. Servicemen can always attend a religious service of their choosing. How would you like a Imam or atheist dressed in their military uniform protesting in front of the white house and screaming Allah or God is for idiots. He has a military chapel and can pray or convert as he pleases. If he is insistent on violating regs. of the Navy and and settled law concerning religion he needs to find other employment. How many other chaplains choose to disobey the order.
He wasn't on active duty at the time...Theoretically, he could have been charged but we both know the repubs don't have the stomach for that kind of thing.
None that I recall. I believe his last feat of noteriety, which was probably meritorious in the eyes of some, was an appearance in 2004 as a primary candidate on the cover of some "queer boy" magazine the name of which I can't remember.
Good point but the POTUS certainly reviews the list of candidates for elevation to General Officer rank and can endorse or exercise veto power over the list that goes to capitol hill. I think you'll agree that the clintonistas micromanaged everything including the General Officer candidate list as opposed to Bush who seems to ride in whatever direction the s#!t is floating with regard to military personnel matters. Either that or he's a damn poor judge of character.
Navy Chaplain Punished for Talking about Jesus Christ
CBN.com – Lieutenant Gordon Klingenschmitt was chaplain on the cruiser USS Anzio, based in Norfolk, Virginia, before he said he was transferred ashore and given a negative job recommendation because of religious disagreements.
LEE WEBB: The U.S. Navy is investigating a chaplain's allegation that he was punished for theological disagreements with his superior officers. Lieutenant Gordon Klingenschmitt says he was transferred ashore and given a negative job evaluation. I spoke with Chaplain Klingenschmitt on our nightly news program CBN NewsWatch, and I asked him if he had ever been disciplined for the content of any of his sermons.
LIEUTENANT GORDON KLINGENSCHMITT: I preached an evangelical sermon at an optionally attended service in the base chapel. It was advertised as a Christian memorial service that honored the faith of one of my deceased sailors, who was a member of my flock. In that sermon I said, you must be born again. I said Jesus Christ is the way to Heaven. And two senior chaplains advised my commanding officer to discipline me for that. They said, you can’t say that in the base chapel because it is not inclusive and might offend people. Well, they are enforcing Harvard Seminary’s Unitarian Universalist’s beliefs against my bishop's beliefs.
WEBB: You mentioned that, because you believe that the problem exists before chaplains even get to the fleet, that it happens in the Navy's chaplaincy program at Harvard? Is that what you’re saying?
KLINGENSCHMITT: Yes. Well, the Naval Chaplain School teaches the lectures on pluralism at the chaplain school, and they actually refer to Harvard Seminary’s model as the official government model. They give government endorsement to that denomination over all other denominations. In fact, they have an exercise there that you are not supposed to pray in Jesus' name. They have clipboards and evaluators who evaluate your prayers, and they praise you if you pray just to God. But if you pray in Jesus’ name, they counsel you. In fact, the chaplain school director spoke with my commanding officer and said that I was an immature chaplain. And my commanding officer used that recommendation as grounds to remove me from active duty.
WEBB: What happens next? Are you going to file legal action?
KLINGENSCHMITT: I have not yet filed any lawsuits. I am just asking for a simple apology and let them move on with their career and let me move on with my career. But if they don't want to apologize, I will have to consider other options.
WEBB: Do you think that it has been worth all of the trouble to be a chaplain? Would you rather just be a pastor in a local church somewhere?
KLINGENSCHMITT: I love the Navy and want to stay in the Navy, and serve sailors. I have given my life to the sailors. I hope that the senior leaders will let me do that. Over 60 chaplains filed a class action lawsuit citing religious discriminations problems just like this. In every instance, the Navy inspector general went in and found nothing wrong. Well, I don’t see that there’s nothing wrong. I see there is a widespread problem, and a lot of chaplains have complained, and we need congressional oversight.
WEBB: The Navy is looking into the allegations. A spokesman said if there is any substance to them, the legal process will take its course
DOD mentioned, thought you might be interested.
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