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To: All; wideawake
"Intelligent Design" is a form of Theistic evolutionism. It doesn't interpret the Genesis account literally or accept traditonal Biblical/Jewish chronology. It merely asserts it is possible to state with scientific accuracy that some sort of "intelligent designer" is behind it all.

The reason other evolutionists are opposed to this particular form of Theistic evolution is that in it G-d slips out of the world of human philosophical speculation into the world of fact, and most even "Theistic" evolutionists believe G-d should remain safely behind the Magical Door that also conceals Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy.

Until fairly recently all conventional religion believed in its facticity. But now "truth" and "fact" have become two separate things: the latter being actual reality and the former referring either to subjective philosophical speculation or else to highly abstract moral/ethical facts. It is amazing how radically new this view of religion is and yet how universally it is now held.

I am not an IDer myself (being a Biblical literalist), but and for a while I was puzzled by this family feud amongst Theistic evolutionists. Some of the anti-ID Thevos said that it was because science does not in fact indicate an intelligent designer even though there may "ultimately" be one who works in a way that never "interferes" with "nature." I now understand this argument as a rejection of a factual G-d and an adherence to a theoretical philosophical construct that never crosses the border from the individual mind into objective reality. Would that more Thevos understood this.

119 posted on 05/03/2006 10:59:52 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Lo' `aleykha hamela'khah ligmor, 'aval lo' 'attah ben chorin lehibbatel mimennah.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
"Intelligent Design" is a form of Theistic evolutionism. It doesn't interpret the Genesis account literally or accept traditonal Biblical/Jewish chronology.

Nor, however, does it affirmatively accept standard scientific chronologies of earth history. It refuses to address or incorporate such issues, period. It refuses to even speculate about when, where or how "design" is actually instantiated. Thus it is vacuous to the point of being useless as a scientific hypothesis.

The reason other evolutionists are opposed to this particular form of Theistic evolution

We're mainly opposed to it as (being falsely represented as a viable and established) science, not as theology or philosophy.

is that in it G-d slips out of the world of human philosophical speculation into the world of fact,

Actually it doesn't, because, again, ID proponents refuse to address, even speculatively, the question of actual instantiation of "intelligent design" events. Thus ID is systematically, and intentionally, detached from reality.

and most even "Theistic" evolutionists believe G-d should remain safely behind the Magical Door that also conceals Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy.

This only follows if the scientific account of reality is held to be complete complete -- requiring no supplementation from philosophy, religion, art, etc -- and held to be the only valid account. Most would brand this view "scientism".

145 posted on 05/03/2006 11:19:48 AM PDT by Stultis (I don't worry about the war turning into "Vietnam" in Iraq; I worry about it doing so in Congress.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
Good analysis.

It is amazing how radically new this view of religion is and yet how universally it is now held.

It's not that new - in the XIIth century theologians at the University of Paris were condemning the notion that: "Something may be true in philosophy but false in theology and vice versa."

And Bl. Pope Pius IX and Pope St. Pius X were pretty vocal about identifying and condemning this muddleheaded approach to reality.

149 posted on 05/03/2006 11:24:35 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: Zionist Conspirator
>>The reason other evolutionists are opposed to this particular form of Theistic evolution is that in it G-d slips out of the world of human philosophical speculation into the world of fact, and most even "Theistic" evolutionists believe G-d should remain safely behind the Magical Door that also conceals Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy.<<

That is often not true. I'm a Christian. I believe in ID. My objection to ID is to teaching in Science class unless and until it is supported by enough evidence that the scientific community views it as a reasonable possibility. I don't think that will happen because I think God wants faith, not demands for proof.
152 posted on 05/03/2006 11:25:25 AM PDT by gondramB (He who angers you, in part, controls you. But he may not enjoy what the rest of you does about it.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
The reason other evolutionists are opposed to this particular form of Theistic evolution is that in it G-d slips out of the world of human philosophical speculation into the world of fact, and most even "Theistic" evolutionists believe G-d should remain safely behind the Magical Door that also conceals Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy.

Uh, there's more to reality besides science. Science is limited. God is bigger than science.

Can you measure a soul?

262 posted on 05/03/2006 3:36:47 PM PDT by stands2reason ("Patriotism is the highest form of dissent." - Mark Steyn)
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