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To: Zionist Conspirator
"Intelligent Design" is a form of Theistic evolutionism. It doesn't interpret the Genesis account literally or accept traditonal Biblical/Jewish chronology.

Nor, however, does it affirmatively accept standard scientific chronologies of earth history. It refuses to address or incorporate such issues, period. It refuses to even speculate about when, where or how "design" is actually instantiated. Thus it is vacuous to the point of being useless as a scientific hypothesis.

The reason other evolutionists are opposed to this particular form of Theistic evolution

We're mainly opposed to it as (being falsely represented as a viable and established) science, not as theology or philosophy.

is that in it G-d slips out of the world of human philosophical speculation into the world of fact,

Actually it doesn't, because, again, ID proponents refuse to address, even speculatively, the question of actual instantiation of "intelligent design" events. Thus ID is systematically, and intentionally, detached from reality.

and most even "Theistic" evolutionists believe G-d should remain safely behind the Magical Door that also conceals Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy.

This only follows if the scientific account of reality is held to be complete complete -- requiring no supplementation from philosophy, religion, art, etc -- and held to be the only valid account. Most would brand this view "scientism".

145 posted on 05/03/2006 11:19:48 AM PDT by Stultis (I don't worry about the war turning into "Vietnam" in Iraq; I worry about it doing so in Congress.)
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To: Stultis
This only follows if the scientific account of reality is held to be complete complete -- requiring no supplementation from philosophy, religion, art, etc -- and held to be the only valid account. Most would brand this view "scientism".

Exactly. This is what your side is. You don't recognize it because you say that science is incomplete without "art, philosophy, religion," etc. But what do you mean by "religion?" Obviously by including it in with art and philosophy you hold it to be speculative and subjective, with no claims to facticity whatsoever.

What you advocates of modernity refuse to recognize is that "religion" doesn't exist. There is only G-d, for Whom everything else in existence is only a garment. Jewish civilization knows nothing of a separate category called "religion" because all of life is regulated--to a totalitarian degree--by "religious" discipline whose ultimate source is HaShem Yitbarakh. The same "religion" that regulates business and forbids murder and theft also regulates the Temple service, prayer, forbids unkosher food, regulates sexual relations, etc. Life is a single seamless reality governed in entirety by G-d, which is why devout Jews recite special blessings for almost every occasion.

Orthodox Judaism is actually much like islam in its overall attitude. It's a shame the Jewish people over the past centuries of persecution have caught a bad case of "minority-itis." If they could confront the world with the actual contents of their religion (rather than its context as a minority faith absolutely dependent on modernity in order to survive) the world might look very different than it does now. It might even be redeemed!

BTW, "religion" in Judaism is statutory rather than voluntary and salvational, which means that Fundamentalist Protestants wanting to mandate school prayer and Jews opposing it is highly ironic. Too bad no body but me seems to notice this.

185 posted on 05/03/2006 12:17:36 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Lo' `aleykha hamela'khah ligmor, 'aval lo' 'attah ben chorin lehibbatel mimennah.)
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