Defending science education against intelligent design: a call to action

American Society for Clinical Investigation ^ | 01 May 2006 | Alan D. Attie, Elliot Sober, Ronald L. Numbers, etc.

[Warlord David]

As stated in this article only 37 percent beleive in evolution.

The problem is that almost everyone lives their life as if they do beleive in evolution.

To much brain washing taking place in the public schools.

The behavior of kids in school is just one more proof what evolution is doing to kids in school, behaving like a bunch of apes beating up on one another.. Reminds of the story when a bunch of apes attack a small group of people, killed one injured 5 others. They should send the apes to schools i do not think anyone will be able to tell the different in our kids behavior.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"The behavior of kids in school is just one more proof what evolution is doing to kids in school, behaving like a bunch of apes beating up on one another.."

And you have what, exactly, to connect the teaching of evolution with the behavior of children?

"Reminds of the story when a bunch of apes attack a small group of people, killed one injured 5 others. They should send the apes to schools i do not think anyone will be able to tell the different in our kids behavior."

The people with IQ's higher than room temp will know the difference. You, probably not.

[blowfish]

The behavior of kids in school is just one more proof what evolution is doing to kids in school,

Nonsense
If this is the best that the bible-thumpers can muster, evolution advocates have nothing to fear...

[Fester Chugabrew]

Sorry you hear your conscience bothers you for being a philosopher, but that is essentially what you are arguing here. You have no empirical tests to establish or confute the idea of intelligent design. You can declare it to be "unscientific," but not on a scientific basis.

I do not hear the proponents of ID saying it is an essentially "supernatural" concept. If they are, they are wrong. Intelligent design is commonplace and extends well beyond human endeavors. This Meyer guy seems to say as well it is inaccurate to describe ID as predominently "faith-based" or religious. So he happens to agree with me, not you.

And no, it is not a point of philosophy to ask for evidence in support of a theory. It is part and parcel of science. Organized matter performing specific functions is decent evidence for intelligent design, but not conclusive. The intelligible universe is replete with examples of the same, so it is not necessarily a supernatural, supersitious, or religious point of view to generally understand an intelligible universe to be a product of intelligent design; no more so than generally assuming each book or play has an author.

[blowfish]

I do not hear the proponents of ID saying it is an essentially "supernatural" concept.

Of course not. They're pretending it somehow fits into the physical sciences.
The fact that there's not a particle of physical evidence for ID doesn't disturb them one bit. Of course, they don't really believe in the validity of modern physics, so maybe it doesn't trouble them at all...

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"You have no empirical tests to establish or confute the idea of intelligent design."

Then, by definition, it cannot be science. Untestable claims cannot be examined by science.

"You can declare it to be "unscientific," but not on a scientific basis."

On a definitional basis. On an epistemological basis. On a practical basis. What good is a claim you can't test?

[MissAmericanPie]

It existed when I went to school, in fact it was the norm. There were no gangs, if someone really misbehaved they got the paddle, administered by the principle or the coach.

Kids actually listened and learned, it was a major embarrassment to get a C.

[atlaw]

You lived in Mayberry?

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"I missed it, upon whose post are you basing this particular placemarker title?"

Track back and look.

[MissAmericanPie]

Pretty close, even the name. But it wasn't just my area, it was nation wide. Teachers where right below your parents in authority, and your parents were right below God. Girls dressed like ladies.

In public school we started with a prayer and the Pledge of Allegiance. It gave us a commonality and a sense of community and responsibility to each other that is missing today. Cheerleaders were the prettiest girls in school and they were voted on by the student body. Not what you have now, some entertainer with no real steak in weather the team wins or not.

What has happened to our Public Schools over the last couple of decades is not only tragic but criminal.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"Sorry mate, sometimes it's hard to go digging through five hundred plus posts to find the one specific comment which you seemed to think indicated evolutionists are homosexuals."

It was a post by an anti-evo who made the insinuation that the people who accept evolution are gay.

If you want the number(s), you can find it in about 10 secs using the backtrack feature (to 570, and so on) to get to the post I was replying to. Just a few posts before the placemarker.

[b_sharp]

"ID'rs are not "welcome" to present their findings to science journals.

"Because of the controversial nature of your letter to [this journal], and concern about whether it would be appropriate for a scientific journal, I asked a senior [journal] advisor to take a look at your submission. As you will see, the accompanying review identifies many apparent flaws in your arguments, and also questions the basic premise of your arguments, that complex systems cannot be dissected to reveal individual components' roles. I concur with this reviewer's sentiment: complex systems are being unraveled!"
http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/index.php?command=view&id=450

It appears to me that his letter was refused because of errors in his arguments.

Are you suggesting that standards be suspended to enable poorly constructed arguments to be published?

[Lurking Libertarian]

some entertainer with no real steak in weather the team wins or not. What has happened to our Public Schools over the last couple of decades is not only tragic but criminal.

Especially in teaching spelling.

[atlaw]

You have wonderful memories from the early years of family sitcoms, but reality was rather drastically different.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

The school I went to also started the day with a prayer and the pledge. The nun who was the principal insisted. We were also taught evolution in science class, and in religion class we were taught that God created the universe. They saw no conflict.

"Cheerleaders were the prettiest girls in school and they were voted on by the student body. Not what you have now, some entertainer with no real steak in weather the team wins or not."

So you applaud the mindless adoration of the accidentally beautiful over those with the talent to cheerlead well? How is that better?

"What has happened to our Public Schools over the last couple of decades is not only tragic but criminal."

And totally unrelated to evolution, which has been taught in most places for far longer than when the problems started.

[andysandmikesmom]

That backtracking feature is great...I was on FR for a couple of years, before I even realized it existed(I can be slow sometimes)...but I love that backtracking feature, as one can in just a few seconds, see what post someone is responding too...no need to go through every single post, just click onto that backtracking feature, and in, like you say, just a few seconds, you can read the post you need...

This comes in especially handy, especially when reading Elsies posts...often he is gone from a thread for a day or so, and then when he responds to a post much, much earlier in the thread, his posts seems completely out of context, often with funny and surprising results...but that backtrack feature allows one to see exactly what Elsie is responding to and then things make a bit more sense(or not, depending on ones views)...

[Elsie]

Especially in teaching spelling.

No wun can tel if I mispel a wurd wen I am tawking.

[andysandmikesmom]

LOL...now, I have no problem with folks misspelling words, as I do it often enough myself...however, in context, this was extremely funny...or was it done on purpose?...that would be clever enough...