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To: MineralMan

I do not mean my criticism of the Cheney's to be because they didn't cut her off. I mean it be because they embraced her like it didn't matter. The "cut her off" thing was brought up by you and I think someone else (regarding Alan Keyes). I don't see that as the worst response, though not necessry (Alan did not cut his daughter off, for the record). I see the worst response as total acceptance.


87 posted on 05/02/2006 2:27:02 PM PDT by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light..... Isaiah 5:20)
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past; MineralMan

I see the worst response as parents trying to "beat the gay" out of their kids. I've known several gay guys to whom this has happened -- I'm talking closed fist, heavy work boot beatings.


89 posted on 05/02/2006 2:29:33 PM PDT by durasell (!)
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past; All

Additional .02 - loving someone "warts and all" doesn't mean you love the warts. Especially if the warts can be cured. It means you love the person, even though s/he has warts. Always hoping that s/he will want to cure the warts one day.

Everyone has character flaws, weaknesses, temptations, and so on. But to be human means to be working on these flaws, trying to overcome them, not just "accepting" them and living with them. For instance, someone may have a rotten temper (I know someone like this). She just says "My father has a rotten temper, my mother has a rotten temper, I have a rotten temper" and lives with it - almost proudly. I feel so sorry for her poor children as they are often on the receiving end. I wound up not having a friendship with her any more because her ungovernable temper drove her away.

Character faults should not be "accepted" by the person owning them, they should be worked on. We may accept the faults of those we love, since we certainly can't mold others, but we can help them gently or not. By so-called accepting things that are really wrong and need to be changed and telling someone "you're perfect/fine just the way you are" is not real love. It is possible to love a person and still not love their flaws. In fact, honest and truthful love is not blind to flaws. We've all seen examples of doting parents who don't discipline their children because they think their kiddies are perfect, while the brats leave a trail of destruction where ever they go.

IOW, there's a third way of dealing with loved ones besides "I love you just the way you are and support all your flaws 100%" and throwing them out of your life because of their faults.


163 posted on 05/02/2006 3:30:15 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Tolerating evil IS evil.)
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