Posted on 05/02/2006 1:10:54 PM PDT by meandog
I've taught Sunday School for some years and what I teach the 3 to 6 year olds is the pap/milk you spew because it's all they will understand. Sin and it's cost is tackled in the higher grades.
Yes you make me angry. You will lead people astray because you are afraid of Gods judgement. You have made a little box for God labeled "Love" and you're pushing Him in it. He is so much more than that.
Because of His love, He has given us rules.If you love someone, you tell them "Don't touch that it's hot! Look both ways before crossing the street". If you don't love someone, you don't care and there are no rules. He didn't give us rules to ruin our day. He gave us rules to save us.
Through His love for His children, He has given us a way to repent sin. He's given us grace. He loved us enough to die so that we may live. And you can't seem to accept that we NEED His forgiveness of our sin. You can't seem to accept that there is sin. You belittle His gift.
Sorry, you got caught in the crossfire between me and posters who have had an axe to grind against Dr. Keyes for a very long time....some of them for years.
You have my apologies. Sometimes it's hard to differentiate between the quality of the attackers.
That's very sad. I love my 3 children no matter where their lives take them.
Actually I thought it was YOU who was playing games. YOU stated posters said they wanted CHENEY to publicly express DISGUST with his daughter. It appears that is not the case, just as I thought.
Unfortunately, anytime a Christian says something is a sin, they're accused of hatred and other things. Oh yeah. Disgust. *sigh*
Well, then his opinions and actions about the matter regarding his daughter were not based upon his POLITICS as has been alleged, but on his MORAL convictions and RELIGIOUS beliefs, (he is a Catholic). I just wanted to mention it for the record.
False and/or inaccurate accusations tend to DISGUST me.
It's a shame that I don't hold the beliefs that you might think I do, otherwise your points would be valid, and not a demagoging joke. Two same gender people buggering one another has absolutely NO effect on me, or anyone else's life and liberty if they are willing participants. As far as child molestation is concerned; significant harm is being done and that child's rights to life and liberty are being violated. I also believe abortion is wrong, and illegal immigration is destroying our country.
Go try that "Sodom and Gomorrah" label someone else. You get a big failing grade here.....
I do not believe that Jesus said the ugly statements you quote. They do not fit with the body of His teaching. You are free to believe that God is punitive and angry, unforgiving and harsh. If that turns you on – you are free to believe whatever you choose. It is sad. I am sorry you are so attracted to the infantile level – to the Taleban level of looking at religion – but I respect your freedom to choose.
Walking the path of love and forgiveness does not mean that a parent doesn’t teach his child. On the contrary the child is taught in an atmosphere of happiness and care. The child is taught responsibility and choice and the child is taught to develop character (to adhere to their principles) and the child is loved and knows she is loved. And when the child strays from the path – the child is loved more and forgiven…and gently, lovingly guided back onto her path. Jesus, when asked, said what? To forgive 70 times seven – to love your neighbor and your enemy.
You have made a little box for God labeled "Love" and you're pushing Him in it. He is so much more than that.
Little child. You have no idea what Love is to say that God is so much more than love. Perhaps you will spend a few hours or a few days and contemplate what it means – what it might mean that God is Love. God loves you more than you can possibly imagine. And God loves Mary Cheney just as much.
Do parents hate their children when they give them rules?
I do not believe that Jesus said the ugly statements you quote.
Don't you own a Bible? I gave you the verses.
You are free to believe that God is punitive and angry, unforgiving and harsh.
If that were true, Christ would not have given His life for our sin.
The child is taught responsibility and choice and the child is taught to develop character (to adhere to their principles) and the child is loved and knows she is loved. And when the child strays from the path – the child is loved more and forgiven…and gently, lovingly guided back onto her path.
Just as I suspected. A "touchy-feely" kinda person.
And God loves Mary Cheney just as much.
Where has ANYONE said that He does not? If she were the ONLY person on the earth, Christ still would have died for her so that she could repent and be saved.
Now that you're done neutering God, I'll say goodnight.
Correct.
"You haven't found what Jesus said either. You found what Matthew said He said.
What Matt attributed to Jesus, in the form of the quote is the equivalent of the words coming right out of God's mouth.
"If your quote from the lips of Jesus via the PEN of Matthew is valid, the quote from the lips of Jesus via the PEN of John is equally valid."
That's correct.
"If Jesus words are the words of God, they are that both in Matthew, in Mark, in Luke, and in John (and in Revelation, and in Acts, and ...)"
Nope. Quotes only appear in the Gospels, outside a quiz to Paul on why He was being persecuted and some travel orders.
"You must either allow both equal vallidity, or reject both as being the words of man."
The Bible is about God, who He is and what He holds. No writings contained within it can overrule a direct quote from God. That is the simple truth.
"...rejecting the words of Jesus as the words of man when recorded for us by the pen of the Apostle John please."
I didn't reject them. I said they were the words of John regarding God. They are not God stating explicitly the condition for salvation/damnation. God gave a complete fundamental explanation of the matter of salvation/damnation. You can not understand John 3:16, or any other passage w/o reference to what God said about the matter.
All passages in the Bible are not of equal weight. I already gave you the case of God explaining a particular law Moses gave and how God denied it came from Him. You failed to address it. That passage was given directly to you by God, so that you would know all passages are not equal. 2Tim3:16 was given, so that you could learn. It has nothing to do with the weight, meaning, or ultimate source of any passage. Here it is, 2 Tim 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
Where does it say all scripture is equal? This says it's useful for teaching and that's it. The rest is up the reader. It's not phrase salad, where you can pick and choose amongst equal phases to form anything and call it correct, right, or the truth. It must make coherent rational perfectly logical sense.
You do not know that real love means correcting the loved one when the loved one goes into darkness.
A parent loves his or her child and therefore disciplines the child when the child misbehaves.
God has given rules (the hated "rules") for behavior in every religion in the world, and the funny thing is those rules are entirely consistent. Sexual behavior especially is mandated to be solely for marriage. Sex outside of marriage, whether before marriage or with another's husband or wife, and especially with same sex partners, is condemned as sinful (IOW, displeasing to God) in every religion.
Someone who loves God naturally follows the "rules" - not out of fear, but out of love. Such a saint doesn't have to try to remember any rules because he or she naturally only wants to do what is pleasing to God out of love. Does a loving husband or wife have to force themselves to remain faithful, or is it a natural impulse?
Someone who truly loves God doesn't break His rules, but follows them naturally out of love. And just because God loves all souls doesn't mean He is never angry with those who misbehave! He can be angry with someone and love him or her at the same time. Every parent know this.
I got it. Good point.
The point I am making is this:
I used to be entirely "live and let live", just like you. Then in the mid/late 80s I started reading books about homosexuality, the health problems associated with its practices, the politicization of AIDS, its agendas and goals and plans. I've continued reading since then. Now I know what homosexual activists have planned, and they have been quite successful although only around 2% of the population.
Live and let live? That would be fine if that was THEIR attitude. But that isn't their attitude.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1625775/posts
I can believe the person who was a member of that family over the political hack.
"You have heard that is hath been said you should love your neighbor and hate your enemy - but I say unto you that you should love your enemy, do good to them that persecute you and pray for them that despitefully use you - that ye may be the children of your Father in Heaven - who maketh His sun to rise on the evil and on the good and sendeth His rain on the just and the unjust...
"for if ye love them that love you - what reward have you??
Do not even the publicans so?
"And if you salute your brethren only
What do ye more than others???
"Do not even the publicans so?"
It is all about Love. The rules and the focus on sin are for those who need them and who cannot understand what love means or who delight in condemnation and attack and in comparing themselves to those who do live by "rules" and focus on sin - those such as the Islamists and the Taleban wing of the republican party. That is what they love...that is what they worship. Hopefully, in time, they will yearn for more love in their lives - more love and more forgiveness and for peace of mind.
When you can love God with all your heart, all your mind and all your soul and when you can love your neighbor and your enemy as yourself - your dependence on rules and sin and punishment will be but a painful memory - like a child waking from a nightmare.
And your works will be good - because Love is good. I pray that that time will be soon for you...
"But the truth remains that God is Love and Jesus' teaching is about love and forgiveness - as well as peace."
That is an excellent summary.
There is a difference between correcting or teaching and condemning. Love is kind - not punitive. Love does not find pleasure in condemnation of others.
Real Love is much more than either of us know. For God is Love and I would dare say that neither of us *know* God. But we our on our journey Home and we learn to receive more and more of God's Love and God's Presence - the Presence of pure and perfect Love.
The *rules* are for those who need them and those who worship them. They serve a purpose - as the Islamists demonstrate. The Islamists love *rules* and submission to *rules*.
Those who are loving and forgiving naturally, as you say, do God's will. And they do it with joy! They are not obsessed with the sins of others nor are they obsessed with God judgement of others.
You would not find Mother Teresa condemning or attacking. Her path was love and forgiveness. And that is why so many millions recognized her spirituality - because of her great love and service to others.
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