White outfit, wrong occasion, Cherie (Cherie Blair didn't wear black to meet the Pope)

UK Telegraph ^ | 4/29/06 | Malcolm Moore and Jonathan Petre

[wagglebee]

Cherie Blair provoked surprise in the Vatican and the ire of a Roman Catholic MP yesterday by wearing all-white to meet the Pope, a privilege normally reserved for Catholic Queens.

The Vatican convention is that females meeting the Pontiff should wear black, preferably with a black veil, or mantilla.

	Cherie Blair with Pope Benedict

When the Queen met Pope John Paul II six years ago, she observed the code meticulously.

Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, wore black, but omitted the veil.

By contrast, Mrs Blair, a staunch Catholic, chose to exercise the "privilege du blanc", usually granted only to the wives of Catholic monarchs.

Her breach of the protocol was surprising, since she has kept closely to the Church's dress code in the past.

Mrs Blair may not have worn a hat to the funeral of Diana, Princess of Wales but she mourned the passing of John Paul II in a mantilla.

Technically, only three women should wear white in the presence of the Pope.

They are Queen Sofia of Spain, Queen Paola of Belgium and Josephine Charlotte, the wife of Grand Duke Jean of Luxembourg. Queen Sofia exercised her privilege in a meeting with the previous Pope in 2003.

Ann Widdecombe, the former Tory minister and a convert to Catholicism, was scathing about Mrs Blair.

"Even the Queen wore black to meet the Pope," she said. "This shows that she has a very grand idea of herself.

"She is a Catholic. She knows what the tradition is when meeting the Pope.

"She obviously thinks she is the first lady.

"My message to her is 'You are not a Catholic Queen, my dear, and you never will be.' "

Mrs Blair was in Rome for a Church-organised conference entitled "Vanishing Youth? Solidarity with Children and Young People in an Age of Turbulence".

She was invited as an expert and remained afterwards for a private meeting with the Pope. A spokesman for the Vatican declined to reveal what they had discussed.

[Conservative til I die]

As a Catholic, I say the hell with this rule. The Catholics hierarchy want their rules and laws followed? Then tell the Catholic Priests, Bishops, and Cardinals in the United States to follow our laws. No more of this amnesty crap from them. I apologize for what seems like a hijacking, but after reading this followed by all their belly-aching the past several weeks, they have nothing to cry about!

Oh good grief....*shakes head*

[SoothingDave]

Decorum becomes "interesting" shall we say, when ohhh, Jews are expected to dress this way and germans that... decorum.. you know. For all the people hollaring about "bigots", it's interesting that it's your decorum that says only Catholics can wear white (symbolically pure/righteous) where non-Catholics would have to wear - other than the pure/righteous garb. It is, shall we say, the genteel bigotry that nobody notices because they're just 'used to it'. ;)

Pay attention! Catholic Queens can wear white. Catholic "commoners" (including the subject, Cherie Blair) are to wear black. It has nothing to do with discrimination based upon religion.

Cherie Blair is Catholic, but she is not a queen. Therefore, this was a faux pas, a breach in protocol. Now, no Catholic official, including the Pope, made any noise about this.

An MP (Member of Parliament, that's in Britain) made a comment.

Now, I know logic and facts bounce off of you, but try it just once.

I'll admit that having different rules for nobility strikes the American mind as wrong. But there is little harm in this custom, and as I have noted, we have our own customs about "proper" dress for various occasions.

SD

[bert]

What blunder? Why pander to the Pope?

[SoothingDave]

We have to ask ourselves: our the things we say likely to leave Protestant critics and neutral readers with a more accurate and positive idea of Catholicism or less? Given certain abrasive, uninstructive posts by Catholics on here, who can blame people like Havoc if they continue to view Catholicism in a negative light?

You make a generally good point, and there has been some ugliness from both sides in here and it does not reflect on Catholics well.

But many of us actually have tried to treat Havoc as someone who was open to argument, only to discover otherwise.

When you are convinced that you alone understand the revelation of Jesus Christ and you alone can see through the demonic facade of Catholicism, it tends to make one impervious to logical argumentation. The more he "studies" the more he convinces himself he is right.

SD

[SoothingDave]

What blunder? Why pander to the Pope?

Presumably a Catholic lady (which Cherie Blair is) would want to show the proper respect for the Pope.

Did that ever occur to you?

Likewise, the wife of a Prime Minister should not knowingly cause offense when meeting the sovereign of another state.

Is that too hard to understand?

SD

[wagglebee]

So when somebody is invited to meet with Bush in the Oval Office, you think it's okay if they show up in shorts and a T-shirt?

[bert]

Best I could tell she was well dressed.

Besides the President is a real world leader. The pope is merely a churchman

[SoothingDave]

Best I could tell she was well dressed.

You don't really understand "protocol," do you?

Maybe you'll understand it if I use (yet another) example. Do you think it's all right for a woman to wear white to another woman's wedding?

Is it proper to wear a bright pink pantsuit to a funeral?

Besides the President is a real world leader. The pope is merely a churchman

The Pope is the sovereign of the independent state called "Vatican City." You can look it up. I know this gives bigots fits, but it's true.

Regardless, Cherie Blair is Catholic. I repeat, Cherie Blair is Catholic. So, presumably, she doesn't share your disdain for the Pope.

SD

[7thson]

To hell with royalty!

[Jaded]

I don't know why I am still surprised by.... well.... these people. Good luck to you.

[catholicfreeper]

I will try to find it. It occured right before the OLympics and involved the LAura Bush visit. I remember it was one of those funny white house pool reports.

[IrishRainy]

It's ironic that you should be so knowledgeable about "pride."

[IrishRainy]

Dude, get a LIFE!

[hosepipe]

Obscenely silly.. Politically correct colors?...

[catholicfreeper]

Ok here it is. I ahve a few comments at the end plus a general obervation for everyone as to this topic
http://www.time.com/time/nation/printout/0,8816,1158238,00.html
5 Rules for Covering a Vatican Visit
TIME White House Correspondent Mike Allen reports that Laura Bush's visit with the Pope wasn't all just pomp and circumstance
By MIKE ALLEN
Being a member of the White House Press Pool, especially when you are subject to the strict rules of the Vatican, is not nearly as glamorous as some may imagine. As the print pool reporter for the First Lady's five-day trip to Italy, responsible for sharing my reporting with my fellow journalists in the Fourth Estate, I experienced that firsthand during Mrs. Bush's visit to the Pope Thursday morning and learned the 5 Rules of the Press Pool when you're visiting the Pope.

1) Don't mess with the nuns
The press pool was in the charge of a nun, attired in blue, who could not conceive of ABC's Ann Compton taking a laptop into the palace. The reporters had been told to bring their stuff with them because they would be running to catch the motorcade as Mrs. Bush departed. "Leave it to a colleague outside," the nun said insistently. "You don't need a computer." Finally, the nun did away with diplomacy and said, "There is no way." An Associated Press reporter from Rome asked about a tape recorder. "Absolutely no recorder in the library of the pope," the nun replied, then clicked her tongue reprovingly, as if in a movie. The nun hurried reporters along one of the narrow, back corridors of the Vatican, which have marble floors and art hanging on the wall, saying, "That's the way." At one point, I was scolded for an unintentional and mysterious infraction. She said, "You understand English? Do you prefer me to use Latin? Spanish? Italian? No more 'Yes, ma'am'! I will call a Swiss Guard and have you removed" Apparently deciding the sin only was a venial one, she granted absolution by reaching in her black bag and handing over a color map and a fact sheet, with a businesslike smile.

2) Plan for everything to be meticulously planned
Press arrangements for such a visit are the product of delicate and exhausting negotiations by the U.S. Embassy to the Holy See and the White House advance staff. The Vatican, with a couple thousand years of history on its side, does not respond to urgency or pushiness. Speed, "necessity," tension — all are anathema. It's one of the few places the President or First Lady goes that the White House doesn't basically get what it wants. Vatican officials don't like e-mail — everything has to be faxed or hand-delivered, with many of the details spelled out in diplomatic notes, known locally as "dip notes." The Vatican still moves at its ancient rhythm. But one legacy of Pope John Paul II's well-known attention to the news media was evident: a Vatican satellite truck was parked out back as Mrs. Bush's motorcade arrived.

3) Be prepared to be awed
The First Lady, accompanied by her daughter Miss Barbara Bush, met His Holiness, Pope Benedict XVI in the ultimate inner sanctum — the ornate, sun-splashed Papal Library in the Apostolic Palace, just off St. Peter's Square. The half-hour audience, all in the library, was so quick it was a blur for both participants and onlookers. It began with a greeting for the cameras among the Pope, Mrs. Bush, Miss Bush and Francis Rooney, the seventh U.S. Ambassador to the Holy See. The Pope, in a characteristic gesture, held both hands out and said, in English, "Welcome." Then the three visitors took white chairs in front of the Pope's desk for brief private audience. As the press was ushered out, Mrs. Bush was remarking on the unseasonably warm weather. Cameras were brought back in for an exchange of gifts, followed by quick handshakes and blessings for five members of the White House staff and a Secret Service agent. Some of these aides, frequent visitors to the Oval Office, were struck literally speechless with respect, so communication was mostly by body language. All were concerned about the protocol of this once-in-a-lifetime moment. One of them said it was so surreal she was unsure if she was supposed to clasp the Pope's hand the way she usually does because she didn't know if she should touch his ring. While the Pope and First Lady exchanged gifts of silver platters and boxes of rosaries, the press pool was given rosaries in vinyl cases.

4) Try to talk about the news
After her audience, the First Lady spoke to reporters at the Hotel Eden about her papal audience, but was soon peppered with questions about rioting over cartoon depictions of Muhammad. "I know that Muslims are offended with these cartoons, and I understand their offense," she began. "On the other hand, I don't think violence is the answer. I think that everyone around the world needs to speak out and say, 'Let's stop the violence.' It's really not necessary to get the point across that they were offended by those cartoons." She said she and the Pope had discussed the matter "just briefly." Then she added, "But we talked about religion, and we talked about the separation of church and state and religion. I talked about how many, many people in the United States are religious. But, of course, we're diverse, a lot of different religions, and that we respect the freedom of religion or the freedom not to worship if people choose not to." Later in the day, after a stop at the U.S. Embassy and changing into a pink suit, the First Lady went in her black Cadillac limousine — with District of Columbia plates, but not the hood flags that adorn the President's limousine — to the 16th Century Villa Madama for a leisurely lunch with Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi. During the photo session, the notably bronzed Berlusconi sucked in his midriff. Then he and Mrs. Bush went into lunch and the press milled about before being taken to a room with casserole, Coke and a few electrical outlets.

5) Get a driver who knows shortcuts
The First Lady missed the second-most-exciting part of the day, which came as the press was leaving the U.S. Embassy and heading toward the Prime Minister's residence. The driver of the bus designated Press 2 was nowhere to be found, so the whole pool piled into a Press 1, a Mercedes bus. It turned out that driver was also snoozing. When the First Lady's motorcade took off, we all screamed at him to step on it, but he had trouble navigating the narrow car-bomb barriers at the embassy gate, and the motorcade was nowhere to be found. Even worse, as it turned out the tail-end of the motorcade, including the ambulance and some police cars, was now behind us. Once we got predictably stuck in Roman traffic, the Secret Service press agent on board our bus told the driver to let the police take the lead. The unmarked white Taurus, siren wailing, jumped in front and led us on a wild ride through the narrow, ancient streets of Rome. A second officer opened the backseat door on the driver's side and gestured frantically at traffic and pedestrians to get out of the way. Peter Watkins of Mrs. Bush's staff pointed out: "This is like the movie 'The Italian Job,' only in a bus!" In the end, the genius in the Taurus had taken us on a shortcut and actually beat Mrs. Bush to the Villa Madama. And the Olympics don't even open until tomorrow.


Oh I am so glad I reread this I needed a laugh. Ok first an observation as to what the reporter decribed as his "unintentional and mysterious infraction". Actually I felt sorry for him because as a Convert of a later generation I would have made the same mistake. A priest told me after I asked him about this that at one time and even now in the Vatican and in Rome its disrespectful to call a Nun "ma'am". This title is reserved to married woman. It was unintentional but funny.

TO everyone here on this topic. I think this article is a good example of what Catholics are trying to get across on this thread. The Vatican by nature and on purpose is a very Conservative place. Reading the article you can see how the staff hates faxes and emails etc and how it want be hurried. Even for the White House. As the Guardian of the Deposit of faith, its always on guard to make sure no move, interpretation or act changes what the Catholic Church has always taught or is interpreted as such. It moves at a snails pace. This ethos goes down to its very way of how it handles the mundane things of life. Things are in fact intentionally slowed down.

Furthermore, its quite interesting the aspect of this article as to how everyone is in awe. This is intentional I believe. I also believe in my on way its because they know they are in the Presence of something different. However, the Vatican goes to great lengths at time to maintain these traditions for a reason. The Pope is not a media star or some average Politician. The Vatican goes to great steps to maintain that environment. In other words, the Vatican doesn't want the Pope to be made a Photo or TV prop for someone on a trip or used for political purposes. Thats very important.

[TaxachusettsMan]

Bite you?

Listen, sweetheart, you couldn't PAY someone to do that.

[TaxachusettsMan]

Your white sheets are ready at the dry cleaners.

[TaxachusettsMan]

Nothing to do at your house, huh?

[TaxachusettsMan]

Could you show me where in the Catechism it says, "Thou shalt be a doormat for ignorant, anti-Catholic bigots?"