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Refineries and oil terminals are full, yet prices are rising
Asia News ^ | April 20, 2006 | Maurizio d’Orlando

Posted on 04/20/2006 1:17:48 PM PDT by NYer

Capital movements due to fears over a possible US-Iran war, financial speculation or market meltdown are driving crude prices upward.

Milan (AsiaNews) – Capital movements on commodity exchanges, not low supply are pushing oil prices upward. Brent crude has reached US$ 74 a barrel because of lowered refinery use and a backup in crude inventories that has left many a super tanker waiting to unload. Oil storage has become a problem since facilities are full in the Persian Gulf, Europe, the Americas and even Asia. Even Israel, which built huge embargo-busting oil depots to allow the country to survive every contingency, cannot store more oil. The same is true for South Africa which inherited vast oil storing facilities from its former apartheid regime and now readily leases out its terminals in Saldanha Bay through its national oil company PetroSa. 

Yet, if US summer demand for gasoline and energy thirst in Asia, especially in China, are likely to punch a hole in supplies, why are large quantities of oil going unsold or not being stored, and prices not dropping? Oil prices are rising because investment funds are pouring liquidity into commodity exchanges trading in oil. This vast flow of capital needs an explanation. There are in fact three possible reasons to account for the situation.

First, it might be a speculative surge that will quickly drop. Secondly, it could be that some financial circles have insider information concerning US government intentions and military options towards Iran—this might explain rising gold prices now at US$ 640 per ounce. Thirdly, it might finally be that many financial groups are investing in commodities like oil to cushion themselves against a possible, 1929-like meltdown of the international financial system. Symptomatic of the danger is the dismal state of General Motors, the major US carmaker, and the potential impact on US financial institutions of further interest rate hikes.


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To: Wristpin

Well glad to see folks are catching on.. been trying to tell people for at least 6 months that energy futures traders are raping em... but the "market is god" types just kept shouting me down.


21 posted on 04/20/2006 1:34:33 PM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: redgolum
Not really. There is a lot of spec money involved, and commodity prices don't follow supply and demand curves all the time. Part of it is that everyone expects the price to rise, so it does. Doesn't matter if they are looking for tank space to store the crude, the price will still rise.

Of course, but that the author stated that less use by refineries is causing prices to rise, among other things. That doesn't make sense.

22 posted on 04/20/2006 1:36:18 PM PDT by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: mysterio

Yea, its supply and demand... supply is so high we can't even store it, and demand is dropping and the price keeps going up... yea, that's classic supply and demand... NOT.

Its called futures trading profiteering, pure and simple. Only difference between whats going on now in the oil futures market and what was going on with tech stocks in 99 is that Oil is an inelastic product.

These folks who think markets are not manipulated or incapable of being influenced or manipulated by forces beyond "supply and demand" and are free from corruption are just abject fools.


23 posted on 04/20/2006 1:36:52 PM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: HamiltonJay
now its Hedge Fund and Futures Traders bleeding the public dry.

The simple approach would be to raise margin requirements thereby increasing the cost and risk of commodities and futures speculation.

24 posted on 04/20/2006 1:37:10 PM PDT by Labyrinthos
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To: Old Professer

When was the last time a company netted 34,000,000,000 ?

Answer: Never.


25 posted on 04/20/2006 1:38:24 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker ((Immigration: Acting like dupes does not earn us their respect, but their CONTEMPT.))
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To: HamiltonJay

BTTT


26 posted on 04/20/2006 1:39:18 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker ((Immigration: Acting like dupes does not earn us their respect, but their CONTEMPT.))
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To: HamiltonJay
Well glad to see folks are catching on.. been trying to tell people for at least 6 months that energy futures traders are raping em... but the "market is god" types just kept shouting me down.

It's not so much the hedge funds. A speculator who buys futures because he thinks prices are going to rise is not doing anything wrong... if he turns out to have been wrong, and prices did not go up, then he is going to lose money.

The problem is that the run up in commodity prices caused by real demand has resulted in Wall Street introducing all sorts of commodity index products that people are pouring money into. These funds have to buy futures, because that is there mandate... it is in essence a bubble just like the internet in 1999.

27 posted on 04/20/2006 1:40:02 PM PDT by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: Wristpin
Is there any kind of watchdog activity on these shadowy figures?

Sure, unfortunately they are oil investors, or shills.

28 posted on 04/20/2006 1:40:10 PM PDT by itsahoot (Any country that does not control its borders, is not a country. Ronald Reagan)
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To: Wristpin

Because they are not keeping up the same income levels. Charge more to make up for what you are not getting. Remember a few years ago when the gasoline usage dropped over several months because of high prices -- less fuel usage threatens their profit projections, regardless of fuel availability.


29 posted on 04/20/2006 1:41:05 PM PDT by RJS1950 (The democrats are the "enemies foreign and domestic" cited in the federal oath)
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To: Labyrinthos

There is an even simpler approach: start shorting crude oil futures.

This price is, from a supply/demand curve, completely nuts--as are beliefs that we're going to go to war with Iran any time in the next 3-5 years.

So, in short, it is a speculative bubble, and one that is overdue to be popped.

Remember that in shorting oil, Soros' pain is your gain!


30 posted on 04/20/2006 1:41:56 PM PDT by BeHoldAPaleHorse ( ~()):~)>)
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To: NYer

"We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming..."

31 posted on 04/20/2006 1:42:36 PM PDT by pabianice
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To: mysterio
1. Oil is a totally free market, and none of the players are manipulating or colluding to drive prices higher. It's only supply and demand and that's it.

Total B$, or were you not around when the OPEC Cartel was established?

These embargo's used to be considered acts of war. But the mandated control

of production let US refineries raise their prices. They loved it.

32 posted on 04/20/2006 1:44:36 PM PDT by itsahoot (Any country that does not control its borders, is not a country. Ronald Reagan)
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To: mysterio

pssst...Have you not heard on this board that capitalists are incapable of greed..no collusion..all legal like.


33 posted on 04/20/2006 1:44:57 PM PDT by JackDanielsOldNo7 (If it wasn't for marriage, I would not have this screenname.)
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To: JackDanielsOldNo7

Collusion? There's no collusion! You don't sound very happy that gas is $3+ per gallon! I'm sorry, that means you are a commie. I mean, come one, you can choose not to buy gas. Unless you want to have a job or buy anything that was treansported.


34 posted on 04/20/2006 1:48:18 PM PDT by mysterio
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To: itsahoot

But it is a totally free market. The industry shills here repeat it like a mantra, so it must be true.


35 posted on 04/20/2006 1:49:18 PM PDT by mysterio
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To: HamiltonJay
Well glad to see folks are catching on.. been trying to tell people for at least 6 months that energy futures traders are raping em... but the "market is god" types just kept shouting me down.

Yeah, we should just give up. Shouting will never cure a terminal case of economic ignorance.

I've tried it on Democrats and it doesn't work on them either.

36 posted on 04/20/2006 1:50:57 PM PDT by mc6809e
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To: Rodney King

Of course it doesn't. The energy sector is nuts most of the time, and it is getting nuttier now.

I would love to see where the spec money is coming from.


37 posted on 04/20/2006 1:53:43 PM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: itsahoot

Mysterio was being sarcastic.


38 posted on 04/20/2006 1:53:46 PM PDT by atlaw
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To: Wristpin
Pricing Theory says you set price according to what the replacement cost is going to be.

That theory is spot on when prices are rising. But I, and I'd bet one or two other people, notice that the theory breaks
down somewhat, when replacement costs go down...

Guess those pricing people don't understand the art of pricing. Then again, maybe they do.

39 posted on 04/20/2006 1:58:44 PM PDT by Calvin Locke
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To: Wristpin

"...Why would an oversupply result in crude prices going up?..."

Price gouging by those involved.


40 posted on 04/20/2006 2:03:31 PM PDT by NCC-1701 (RADICAL ISLAM IS A CULT. IT MUST BE ELIMINATED FROM THE FACE OF THE EARTH.)
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