Why so many grads 'fail to launch'

You were a science major, right? Liberal arts doesn't require all the courses you mentioned.... so I'm not sure what your point was... :)

Ok I didn't mean to offend but that sure seems like a great schedule to the those who don't have it. Further, impressions from the outside looking in include the way "work" can be segmented into discrete years, semesters, etc. I think is quite extraordinary as well.

The main problem for welders is that they may develop problems with the back and various joints due to having to work in uncomfortable postures. Most will also get burned and the burns are very slow to heal. But, for those with the talent, they can do very well and if they are capable of a college degree they are capable of eventually owning their own business and hiring young welders who still have a functional back.

There are more than enough community colleges and state University extensions out there to give degrees with more prestige and less cost.

My son spent a year messing around with the community college. It is essentially operated like a public high school. Many of the students use it as a place to hide from the real world. California community colleges are required to admit any high school graduate. GPA and ability don't figure into the process. Suffice to say, he was willing to pay for quality instructors and motivated students.

You were a science major, right? Liberal arts doesn't require all the courses you mentioned.... so I'm not sure what your point was... :)

If you had chosen a "liberal arts" major at Revelle College, you would still have to take physics, chemistry, biology, calculus, pass oral and written proficiency in a foreign language, take 6 quarters of humanities covering literature from ancient Greece forward to the 19th century, take a couple fine arts classes, some political science and sociology. That's just the basic undergraduate requirements. Your feet really get held to the fire when you dive into the junior and senior sequences specialized to your major. Your fellow students tend to be a bit "cut throat" about doing well in the class. Especially those who have med school aspirations. Revelle requires a "non contigous" minor. I paired my molecular biology major with a psychology minor.

One thing is certain...all 4 year degrees are not of equivalent value. The school, student population and academic standards make a very big difference in the end results. It's more than just a piece of paper when you examine the issue carefully.

But, for those with the talent, they can do very well and if they are capable of a college degree they are capable of eventually owning their own business and hiring young welders who still have a functional back.

Lovely. Passing on the pain and suffering to the next generation. Two of my high school pals have been medically retired for the last 10 years from injuries caused by their welding "career". Another buddy that I've known since kindergarten spent time in the Navy, then went into truck driving. He's medically retired too. Fortunately, his parents left their house to him. He has somewhere to flop and live on disability for the rest of his life.

My oldest son when he was in college studying computer science formed a software business with a few other talented college students. They picked up about a half dozen contracts that generated only modest amounts of money but yielded priceless experience in terms of what it takes to run a business and successfully compete in a tough market. Running the business demanded a lot of time and he paid for it by not doing as well academically in some of his more technical classes (calculus in particular). He graduated with 3.3 gpa from a decent--not top tier--school. But he had a resume that was stuffed with real profit-based achievement.

He sought work from about a dozen companies and was offered jobs by all of them. He took his dream job. He and his wife bought a home and are awaiting the birth of identical twin girls. He has definitely left the nest and built his own.

He told me last week about an Ivy league graduate that his company flew out for a final round of interviews. The kid had a 3.8 gpa and plenty of academic frills on his resume. They didn't hire him. My son asked his boss, "He went to a better school than I did, and got better grades than I did. Why didn't you hire him?" He said his boss told him, "He had no experience except what he had picked up in school. We need people who think more broadly and who implicitly understand what it takes to make a business succeed. You had that. He didn't."

The best thing about my son's experience is that it gave him complete confidence in his ability to start his own company if necessary. He loves his work and the company he works for, but if he ever got laid off, he'd be filing LLC paperwork and recruiting talented programmers before the day was out.

Dear Lord, where to begin...

"Not necessarily. The military could maintain it's high standards of recruits, while the other service area's could take in the "less desirables."

Boy that policy will sure raise morale and the work ethic for whichever branch of service is "lucky" enough to obtain your indentured servants! (rolls eyes) Have you ever served in the military? You do realize that for our armed forces to operate effectively, effeciently and safely they need to have motivated, well trained and dedicated men and women to handle all sorts of jobs, most of which require a serious amount of skill and experience. Throw in a bunch of pissed off "I don't wanna be here" folks and people are going to get killed. But hey, they're "building character" so its cool.

"As far as thinking that such a plan could be implimented now in our society, I realize that we are too weak to attempt that now. Heck, G.W. didn't even impliment the draft after we were attacked on 9-11."

No it is not the case that we were "too weak" politically to enact a draft. Bush did not instigate one because HIS MILITARY LEADERS DID NOT THEN AND DO NOT NOW WANT A DRAFT. Rumsfeld, Pace and others have made it quite clear they are opposed to draftees, they are happy with how the volunteer force is doing and do not wish for a change. The only people who think differently are you and Charlie Rangel.

"By the way, Switzerland and Canada, had similar "totalitarian" type programs."

Canada also has mandated government controlled health care. Should we emulate them in that aspect as well? Our Constitution and Bill of Rights gurantees us citizens natural rights which cannot be taken away. Other countries could care less about such "antiquated" nonsense and thus have no compulsions about pointing a gun at their people and ordering them into ranks.

"Boy that policy will sure raise morale and the work ethic for whichever branch of service is "lucky" enough to obtain your indentured servants! (rolls eyes) Have you ever served in the military? You do realize that for our armed forces to operate effectively, effeciently and safely they need to have motivated, well trained and dedicated men and women to handle all sorts of jobs, most of which require a serious amount of skill and experience. Throw in a bunch of pissed off "I don't wanna be here" folks and people are going to get killed. But hey, they're "building character" so its cool. "

You have a misunderstanding of what I am proposing. First, Yes I served for 6 years in the Navy, 4 years on a submarine, 2 of those years as one of the sub's divers. I completely understand how the enlisted side of the military operates!

Second, what I said about the military maintaining it's standards, means ALL branches of the ARMED Forces (CG, USMC, USN, USA, USAF). If someone does not meet the minimum standards then they wouldn't be allowed in.

Third, the "other services" would deal with working on keeping National Parks clean, or working in Cities on clean-up projects. The manditory service of 2 years would teach dicipline and work ethic that many youth lack. Plus, there could be money incentives like the military, where if you put money away into a savings account, the service will match it. The government could guarentee some college credits for certain fields. Those working in the city could learn about construction fields or those working in the forestry areas could learn about those fields.

Yes, it would be a form of indentured servanthood, but then so is military service. People don't appreciate good jobs until they have had hard jobs. This would also force people to learn to work in teams and with people of many different backgrounds, while providing a service to their country. Plus, if people didn't want to be involved in wars or killing they wouldn't have to.

"No it is not the case that we were "too weak" politically to enact a draft. Bush did not instigate one because HIS MILITARY LEADERS DID NOT THEN AND DO NOT NOW WANT A DRAFT. Rumsfeld, Pace and others have made it quite clear they are opposed to draftees, they are happy with how the volunteer force is doing and do not wish for a change. The only people who think differently are you and Charlie Rangel."

The draft as it was implemented before was not a good system (deferments and no option for consciencious objectors). Yes, the level of the average volunteer is higher then it has ever been, however, a draft is a big loser politically so it won't happen again, unless we get nuked or something of that degree. (When that happens though, it will be too late, think Pearl Harbor '41 and D-day '44)

Charlie Rangle wants a draft only to try to smear Bush. I want a 2 year mandatory service to better our country and the youth. Plus, if we really are serious about going to war against terrorism, we are going to need more men to...1) secure our borders 2) secure our intrests 3) relieve the troops in the field.

We are doing an amazing job with what we have, but if Korea and Iran are truely our enemies in the war on terror, the troop strength we have now is insufficient.

You can quote Pentagon reports if you want, but remember the military is a huge political beast too. If you know that your commanding officer believes something or is looking to support a certain belief (i.e. don't need a draft) then thats what you report. Read some Hackworth books, it'll give you a glimpse of the "machine." Plus, Hackworth liked the draft, because it put people into the military who didn't care who they pissed off, because they weren't trying to get "their ticket punched." It is these people who buck the system when the system goes astray.

"Canada also has mandated government controlled health care. Should we emulate them in that aspect as well? Our Constitution and Bill of Rights gurantees us citizens natural rights which cannot be taken away. Other countries could care less about such "antiquated" nonsense and thus have no compulsions about pointing a gun at their people and ordering them into ranks."

You missed the point again. You called my idea totalitarian. If you think Canada is totalitarian, then fine (I thought they had more then one political party). My point is simply, civilized democracies do use compulsory service with out becoming a single party centralized government.

No, I wouldn't want their Health Care system, but that's not what I was proposing. You are making an "apples to oranges" comparison. Plus, your "putting a gun to their head" is quite over dramatic. I proposed a 2 year work program for 18 year olds and you try to characterize it as some kind of gulag.

I recommend that you take a deep breath and relax. My idea will never happen, so all your worries are just wasted energy. Have a wonderful Easter Sunday.

Sincerely