[redgolum]

Always amused me that so many thought the Native Americans had no real civilisation and "lived as one" with the land.

[lepton]

who seemed peeved at the thought that his favorite white men had not invented everything themselves in a vacuum,

We owe a lot to the Scottish, who laid down a generation of arguments in the early 1700s. That's hardly a vaccuum.

[alloysteel]

There is a tendency to lump together all indigeous people of North and South America, known generically as "Indians".

But in fact, they had little in common with each other, and often were at great odds with their close neighbors, lacking even a common language in many cases. There were traveling "Kokopelli" traders that did carry trade goods, news, entertainment and just plain gossip between tribes over a wide area, which did have some kind of homogenizing effect, in a region that stretched from probably somewhere in the Ohio valley, to the capitals of the Aztec and Mayan empires.

But passive? The adjective just does not apply. There were widespread wars, incursions on territory, and atrocities against enemies that would curdle the blood, even of folk familiar with Old Testament history. The Spanish had somewhat better technology than the Aztecs (horses and firearms), but they were in reality more savages than the civilization they destroyed.

[KayEyeDoubleDee]

If I had to pick one word to describe (my impression of) pre-Columbus Americans, it sure as shiite would not be passive.

[eskimo]

The Myth of the Passive Indian - Was America before Columbus just a “continent of patsies”?

Possibly not then but certainly now.

[mcashman]

Not sure all the research in this article is reliable. For instance, it claims that only in the 1990s was it realized that knotted strings represented "texts" but my book on "Picture Writing of the American Indians" (1893) indicates that it was known that Peruvians used a three dimensional array of knotted strings (quipu) to keep accounts.

[Elsie]

But according to the Mormons.......

[hispanarepublicana]

They never heard of the Comanches?

[kinghorse]

a) they picked flowers and used all of the beast.

or

b) they acted in self interest and that involved whacking each other from time to time.

I choose b.

[wizr]

Thanks.

[Apercu]

Joke.
The Indian Way

The old Sioux chief sat in his reservation hut, smoking the ceremonial pipe, eyeing the two US government officials sent to interview him.

"Chief Two Eagles," one official began, "you have observed the white man for many generations, you have seen his wars and his products, you have seen all his progress, and all his problems."

The Chief nodded. The official continued, "Considering recent events, in your opinion, where has the white man gone wrong?"

The Chief stared at the government officials for over a minute, and then calmly replied:

"When white man found this land, Indians were running it. No taxes. No debt. Plenty buffalo. Plenty beaver. Women did most of the work. Medicine man free. Indian men hunted and fished all the time."

The Chief smiled, and added quietly, "White man dumb enough to think he could improve system like that."

[giobruno]

I researched the "Iroquois Influence" idea in grad school and found it to be mostly bunk; the sources for the US model of government were widely drawn, but they were overwhelmingly European and Classical models. Some founders noted the Iroquois (Franklin, most prominently) but not as a primary model. As I recall, the evidence wasn't ignored, it simply wasn't very convincing. I recall some strong arguments were made from many prominent historians of US History.
Please note what Ms. Sturgis does for a living; she guards her turf more closely than other historians guard theirs.

[King Prout]

you'll find this interesting

[Richard Kimball]

Bump for later. Thanks for the article.

[joesnuffy]

some experts have been equally guilty of forsaking academic inquiry in favor of ideology

ergo.. the myth of 'value free science'

imo

[NHResident]

Mann's research and writing is better fit for an article in People or Time. I read this book carefully - Mann is surprisingly ignorant of some pretty well known facts which call into question some of his 'synthesis'of the story of the indigenous peoples. For example, he is unaware that kite flying and kite battles have taken place in Asia (China and Japan) for thousands of years, the 'knot-tying' as a way of recording events. On a more contemporary note, he apparently missed hearing that the famous American Indian actor, Iron Eyes Cody - was born Espera DeCorti on 3 April 1904 in the small town of Kaplan, Louisiana. He was the son of Francesca Salpietra and Antonio DeCorti, she an immigrant from Sicily who had arrived in the USA in 1902, and he another immigrant who had arrived in America not long before her.

A small point but these and other inept analogies and conclusions don't lend much creditability to his logic. He is a mediocre, but entertaining writer of fiction. Actually, he probably is an excellent choice to communicate faux science to the masses - we watch for his next book on the perils of man-made global warming,

[SunkenCiv]

earlier on FR...

A fascinating new look at America before Columbus
The Charlotte Observer | Aug. 14, 2005 | CHARLES MATTHEWS
Posted on 08/17/2005 2:43:12 PM EDT by Between the Lines
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1465258/posts

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1486753/posts?page=23#23

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks Kitchen for the ping. Just adding this to the GGG catalog, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.

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